This is not an ad. Just trying to help my sister out.
She needs to sell her horse, and needs some ideas as to what is acceptable and what's not. Like. he is a stallion, she wants to sell him with a contract to breeding rights. How would that work?
There is someone wanting to come look at him, she found out that this person is out of state, she's not so sure about that, because she wants to be able to follow him at shows, and see how he does. (her trainer says he has GP potential) If someone comes to look at him, is it right or ok to decline selling him to them because they are out of state?
Is it ok to ask permission to follow him at shows, and take pictures etc.?
Is it ok to ask that they keep him a stallion? I don't see how, once you sell the horse, you no longer have control, unless you put it in contract right?
My sister is emotionally exhausted from this. She, in a way, doesn't want to sell him. but she can't afford to do anything with him, and feels bad that she is wasting him basically. He is a wonderful horse full of potential, and would rather see him with someone who can take him far. she also just had her hours cut at work, and is making paying his board (even with someone half leasing him) very difficult.
She has never gone through the selling process before, and needs help. She is working with her trainer as well.
Also. she has set her price for him, trainer thinks she should be flexible a bit because any other horse out there is a lot cheaper than him at the same training level. But my sister wants to stick to her price. but people coming to look at him want to stay a little bit less. what are your thoughts?
With all that she is expecting if I were a buyer looking at him and she stated those things I would want nothing to do with it.
Sounds like she is looking for someone to just lease him.
There is no law saying that she has to sell to anyone out of state, but it sounds like maybe that would be the only way the buyer would actually have the chance to not have her show up at odd times. It is one thing wanting/ hoping to keep in touch with a buyer, it is another thing to expect to be treated like she still owns the horse.
As for price. A horse is only worth what someone will pay. If the trainer thinks he isn't worth that price, and there are others for sale for less, then my guess is that she is not going to get what she wants. She isn't required to sell him for less then what she wants, but she has to also realize that there is a good chance he won't sell.
If you know that you would not sell to someone (b/c they are out of state, not experienced/old enough, etc.), don't bother having them come out to look--wastes everyone's time.
That said, you are right that you can't really control what buyers will do once they've bought the horse (contract or not, sadly). They can resell the horse, move far away, geld him, show in a different discipline, etc. It would be nice if they stayed in touch and let you know how he's doing and when he was showing locally, but you can't really contractually require that.
Not sure how breeding rights are typically sold, hopefully a breeder can chime in.
But selling really is a loss of control of the horse. You don't get to specify what the buyer does with the horse after the sale, or require her to stay in contact.
I think your sister needs to get more comfortable with the idea of selling -- and what it entails -- before she puts him on the market.
If she wants the horse to sell in state, to someone who will give her breeding rights, let her come and be a fan club at shows, and will pay top $$ she may have a hard time selling him. But she should let potential buyers who do not meet her criteria know up front so she doesn't waste their time.
Would I buy a horse with that list of caveats? heck no.
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If she wants breeding rights, she should pay to collect him now and have it frozen. No person in their right mind would consider those limitations, especially considering she seems to want too much money for the horse. She needs to accept that selling means giving up all rights to the horse, and any say in what happens to him in the future. If she can't handle that, perhaps she should be looking to lease him out instead of selling.
If she wants to sell him, he needs to be priced for the market. I see so many people who want - just as an example - 5K more than current market value. So they hold out, and by the time they finally luck out and find a buyer ( or give up and sell for less) they've spent more than 5K in training/board/shoes/etc.
She can vet buyers to try and pick someone that will keep him intact, but once he's not her horse anymore she has no say. And it's silly to demand a stallion that sounds like he's in the beginning of his career, with no/few? foals on the ground stays intact -so few promising stallions ever deliver on that promise. As a buyer I want to be able to geld the horse I just bought if it appears he's not worth breeding and not worry about the old owner flipping out on me because I just crushed her dreams.
I'll keep in touch with old owners but I'm buying a horse, not entering into a relationship with the sellers. If they're showing up at every outing it's going to creep me out, IMHO.
A few COTHers may recall a recent experience I had helping a friend re-home her 18 year old OTTB. She was asking $1500 and was NOT going to get that amount for him. Thankfully everything worked out well and she sold him to a fellow COTHer at a much more reasonable price.
The horse market stinks, folks. Good horses are being given away. Doesn't matter what you paid for the horse 4 years ago. People need to be realistic. And yes, if you stick to an inflated and unrealistic price you will end up spending more than that on board, shoes, etc., etc. while waiting.
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Based on your post, I think you already know the answers to your questions and are looking for other people to back you up.
...she wants to sell him with a contract to breeding rights. How would that work? I have only ever heard of that working for a horse that is ALREADY showing successfully, not one that is at the very beginning of a career. I do not think it would work at all; people looking for a prospect would want the option to geld if the horse ends up being not that great... a brat away from home... hard to find a boarding situation.. etc.
If someone comes to look at him, is it right or ok to decline selling him to them because they are out of state? As long as she is honest beforehand, she can decline a sale, but if she is desperate does she have that luxury? Also if she was not upfront beforehand and I made the trip, I would be beyond pissed.
Is it ok to ask permission to follow him at shows, and take pictures etc.? I guess it is OK to ask but is kind of creepy... Personally that is not something I would be comfortable with and would pass on the horse as a result.
Is it ok to ask that they keep him a stallion? I don't see how, once you sell the horse, you no longer have control, unless you put it in contract right? You can ask and put it in the contract, but people's circumstances change all the time just like your sister's. The buyers may have every intention of keeping him a stallion and then something happens that necessitates the horse being gelded. I again would not sign a contract that took that option away from me.
My sister is emotionally exhausted from this. She, in a way, doesn't want to sell him. but she can't afford to do anything with him, and feels bad that she is wasting him basically. I am truly sorry that your sister's life circumstances have changed to the point where her dreams for him are not possible for her to accomplish. However, with her criteria and unrealistic pricing, that horse is amazingly unlikely to sell ever. She can try to lease, but a lower level stallion is going to be a hard lease and is unlikely going to get him a show career she dreams of. If she just can't part with him (her criteria makes it seem like the case...), I would have her collect from him, geld him, and then put him in an inexpensive boarding situation until things are looking better for her. He doesn't care if he ever reaches Grand Prix. He just want to be taken care of.
Thank you all for your replies. Part of the problems we are having is it seems the trainer she's working with is maybe moving a bit too fast. My sister told her she wanted to sell him, but never gave the go to advertise, my sister didn't put an ad up yet. The trainer put one up, and suddenly got a reply. I don't think my sister knew that the people interested were from out of state until the trainer told her they were coming and had already booked the flight. My sister didn't get a chance go over these kind of details before the trainer listed him.
the horse has a small, but good showing record. (hasn't been to a ton of shows, but quite a few and gets 1st and 2nd in everything) so he has that, and because of his breed, he is worth more. And the people interested are willing to pay close to that. the trainer is comparing him to every other breed at his level, not other friesians at his level with his breeding.
I think my sister thought about collecting and freezing, but she has looked into it, and it is very common for friesians to not freeze well. it's a risk I guess.
She is already half leasing him out, it's working great, but my sister just cant do the other half and can't find someone to lease the other half. If she moves him to a different barn, she loses leaser, and the trainer.
Yes I pretty much know the answers, but I am looking for opinions and backup. I know it's not easy. I want to help my sister I know she needs to sell him, but I think she needs to be able to let him go. He is a fantastic horse, and I too would like to someday breed a mare to him, but I can't now. if he's still a stallion in the future, I'm surely to look him up!!!
thanks for your replies, I will have her read these. Please keep them coming!