[merrygoround]

As noted in Andreas Hausberger's Facebook photos, they are still using these along with the dropped noseband which was so common in dressage until it was replaced in popularity by the flash, snaffle combination.

Does anyone still use one?

I tried to post the Facebook link but was unsuccessful. If anyone else can, please do.

[Janet]

I use a dropped noseband.

[ideayoda]

Use both, always have (esp on green horses).

[belgianWBLuver]

I use a fulmer snaffle or a loose ring french-link snaffle, sometimes an eggbutt snaffle with french link - depends on the horse and the fit.

I like to start with a dropped noseband - but when the greenie is beginning to relax his jaw and foam I switch to a regular noseband fitted loosely (3 fingers fitting easily in the noseband) this allows his mouth to masticate and keeps his jaw relaxed. Sometimes I'll switch back to the dropped if I need too but usually if I'm careful with my level of contact I don't need to switch back. Really depends on the horse also. An OTTB usually takes much more time to teach and encourage to relax in his jaw and masticate but it comes eventually!
See the discussion on flexions in the French classical spinoff thread. The flexions, done properly, tend to help me the most in achieving acceptance.
(here is the link which will drop you right in the middle of the conversation!): http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showth...l!-quot/page49

[cadance]

Hilltop Farm starts all of their young horses in a full cheek, not sure why though..

[JanDinWA]

We start all of our horses in a Fullmer snaffle and dropped noseband.

[ideayoda]

(of course there are two judges out there who tell fei (young horse) competitors (unasked) that they are agressive bits that should not be used.....so clearly the hundreds of years old srs didnt get that (#$$#&) message.)

[goodpony]

What would make them say that? We have used them with success on our young horses as well.

[GingerJumper]

(of course there are two judges out there who tell fei (young horse) competitors (unasked) that they are agressive bits that should not be used.....so clearly the hundreds of years old srs didnt get that (#$$#&) message.)

How on earth would a fulmer be an aggressive bit? I mean, yes, every bit can be harsh in the wrong hands, but that is not a harsh bit to start with by any stretch of the imagination...

[BaroquePony]

The problem I have with the fulmer is the chance that the cheekpieces can get caught or 'hung up' on something. I have heard about accidents where cheekpieces have caused a puncture wound, sometimes to the horse and sometimes to the rider.

I don't think of it as a good ammie or beginner bit, once again, because the cheekpieces could get caught on something.

Mostly the beginner aspect is the problem. And if beginners in the USA see others using something, they just have to have it .

[OreoCookie]

I've always liked and used a full cheek to start babies. I switch to a loose ring, egg butt or D-ring depending on the horse and discipline once they are ready and don't need the support and assistance the full cheek provides.

I normally use a plain caveson but I just recently began using a drop and really, really prefer it over a flash when the extra support is needed.

[ideayoda]

A drop is not for support (these things that flash 'reasoning' have come up with). The reason for a drop is two fold. Because the cheeks of a fulmer/full cheek can get caught under a normal noseband. And because a drop can prevent the crossing of the jaw (which some horses may attempt early on).

Remember bits are for training horses, and anyone can think it a harsh bit I have no idea. It does PREVENT a poor rider from pulling the bit into the mouth (when people hang on an inside rein), and it does 'funnel' the horse more into the bit and keep it from tilting.

Can it get caught on something, say bandages, if the #*($&$ rider lets the horse rub? Yes. So can a curb chain. That is just bad horsemanship, something that should be taught early on.

[merrygoround]

Perhaps the judges have observed too many people using them without keepers.

And they are single jointed snaffles which can in the wrong hands create a nutcracker effect, but that leads us back to people who have no business on a green horse.

[ideayoda]

The srs traditionally does not use keepers, it has a different effect when they are used (more severe on some horses).

Any snaffle has a problematic effect when the snaffle is used for longitudinal flexion and the horse is held btv or with the hands used backwards against the jaw. A double broken has more action on the tongue, and both can be a nutcracker effect.

The use of a snaffle may be hh (upward), or an opening rein (really tends to need a full cheek or a clear outside connection, or a neck rein. Direct reins of opposition are NOT meant for ANY use.

For sure, a green horse SHOULD have an educated rider, but most of the time the teacher gets green on green (or problematically trained).

[JanDinWA]

The srs traditionally does not use keepers, it has a different effect when they are used (more severe on some horses).

I have always seen the SRS use bit keepers. I was just there in Sept. and didn't see any horse in a Fulmer without bit keepers. Also have never seen a photo of any of their horses in years past without bit keepers on a Fulmer bit. Can you point to any pictures or videos that show them not using bit keepers?

[belgianWBLuver]

The srs traditionally does not use keepers, it has a different effect when they are used (more severe on some horses)...

I have always seen the SRS use bit keepers. I was just there in Sept. and didn't see any horse in a Fulmer without bit keepers. Also have never seen a photo of any of their horses in years past without bit keepers on a Fulmer bit. Can you point to any pictures or videos that show them not using bit keepers?

Hmmm Keepers really do change the effect of the bit as we all know - My question (I'll admit I never really paid attention - Ugh Sacre bleu!!!!) Do they use keepers or not - can't find any pics either!!!

[belgianWBLuver]

Ca y est - Found a website in which approx. halfway down the SRS chief speeks of the use of keepers - http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...hoice-noseband

Still no pics though....

[Pasde2]

You make a good point about the judges - and another good point about people who have no business on a green horse!

That said, I'd like to mention that both ordinary full-cheek and Fulmer snaffles are available with French-link mouthpieces and probably any number of other multiple-joint mouthpieces as well, so neither a full-cheek nor a Fulmer is necessarily a single-joint snaffle. I own several of each with French-link mouthpieces, and have found them very helpful for certain youngsters...

Also, keepers can provide a certain amount of stability for the mouthpiece, but this is not necessarily to the horse's benefit - as always, you have to deal with each horse's understanding and conformation on a case-by-case basis. And using keepers to stabilize a Fulmer of any kind seems an odd idea since the point is to have a bit that offers both the lateral stability of the long cheekpieces AND the sensitivity/flexibility of a loose-ring snaffle... By the time you have added keepers to a Fulmer, you might as well have used a conventional full-cheek snaffle, with or without keepers.

I also agree with whomever pointed out the risk of impalement on those cheekpieces. I've seen that a time or two, and it's not pretty. Today's bit of trivia: That risk is the reason you're far more likely to see D-ring or half-cheek snaffles in use at racetracks.

[ambar]

Ca y est - Found a website in which approx. halfway down the SRS chief speeks of the use of keepers - http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...hoice-noseband

I'll add that the fancy SRS-branded Albion bridles have a built-in keeper. (Yes, I have one. No, I bought it used; I'm not quite as crazy as I sound. The leather smells heavenly. I bought a Fulmer snaffle just for that bridle. )

[EnzoDbr9]

Learning about all this stuff is pretty fun.