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  1. #81
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by skykingismybaby1 View Post
    I teach theraputic riding, and I have hauled riders off their horse. I have done it for safety reasons, but also concern for the horse. If a rider student of mine starts bouncing or kicking - off they come.

    I remember one mom of a severly autistic boy yelling at me as I was hauling him off a pony. "Drop him!, dont hurt your back"

    No matter how disabled, I will not allow behaviors that put the horse or the rider at risk. I stop the ride first and communicate to the rider, I will try this as many times as I am comfortable but will end the ride by hauling the rider off the horse if I feel I need to. This has only happened twice.

    If my standards for severly disabled kids allows this why should an able bodied rider get away with more?

    intent? it is one thing to haul someone off a horse for their safety and another to do it because you dont like what they are doing to their own horse.

    look - folks can do as they please.

    i am just passing along what i have been taught - from an event security POV - just a heads up if you will.

    I suggest that anyone involved with minors should check with their local laws etc just so they know where the line is, so to speak. Then you will know.

    my "advice" is worth what you paid for it after all


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
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    Midwest
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    916

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    To the OP, it does put a very different spin on things if the girl is a hard-working "barn rat" who likes to help out, and not just a riding diva who shows up, rides her horse and goes home every day.

    I admit I had an inherently bad temper when I was growing up (would occasionally break a toy out of anger, etc). When I was in my teens I'm sure I lost my temper while riding a couple of times. Through working with good trainers and my own observation (and working with TBs, who tolerate NO emotional outbursts even if not directed at them) I eventually learned that if I was having a bad day, I might as well just get off my horse and ride another day. However that was definitely a learned skill.

    Beating a horse in a stall is an entirely different story. Like any other misbehaving person or animal who is caught in the middle of wildly inappropriate (and dangerous) behaviour, that person should be IMMEDIATLEY called out and reprimanded. You can discuss the reason for the girl's outburst afterwards, but if you catch your student beating a horse about the head, you physically stop them if you need to do so. They are creating a safety hazard for themselves and others, not to mention the poor horse.

    OP, what did you do when you caught the girl beating the horse? Did you shout and interrupt what was going on, or walk away?

    It sounds like you will have some leverage here because the girl obviously appreciates your barn. You need to make it clear to her that you do NOT approve, nor will you tolerate that type of behavior. That kind of reprimand will likely have a big effect on this girl based on your description of her.

    I'd also discuss with her the nature of horses as prey animals and why her behavior is so unfair (will inevitably cause worse behavior in the horse rather than better) and how her actions will affect later training with the horse due to fear, etc. Play on the empathy factor, and also discuss it from a "cause and effect" standpoint. Make it plain that she will not achieve any goals with the horse or with you as a trainer if she behaves that way, and explain why.

    If she hasn't been called out on this previously, just being called out for it may be enough to make her think twice next time.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2006
    Posts
    1,895

    Angry

    i am not telling you how i feel about it - i am telling you how the parents and cops/courts will view it.
    talk about over reaction...I have dealt with bad behaviour over the years and have never been arrested nor sued. The sad part is usually the parents thank me...because they are too soft on their kids. I just don't tolerate such behaviour at any age.
    My favorite thing to say to the kids is "don't talk to me like that, I am not your mother" And believe me, they get the point.

    I had a kid who wanted to canter on her 4th lesson. I said no, you need to be more balanced. when I turned my back she kicked the horse with both legs while he was already trotting forward...I told her to bring him back to a walk and if she did that again I would take her off the horse.

    How in the world is that going to get me arrested? she knew I meant business and apologized. If I ignored her I would be contributing to the deliquency of a minor
    "When you think you don't need a coach ...then you're in trouble" Don Imus 2012


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Bogey2 - what you describe is very different.... and no where near abuse physical or verbal....

    my only point was just to say - to protect yourself find out where the lines are - so you don't cross one inadvertently. seems like a logical thing to suggest??


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    Dec. 20, 2009
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    3,135

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    From a non-mom, non-professional horse owner: my thoughts.

    IMO, a trainer has responsibility not only for teaching a student how to ride safely and effectively, but also to insure the welfare of the horse in the process. No matter who's horse it is. In my conversation w/ parents I would explain this and tell them that if she gets too harsh w/ horse in a lesson, you will stop the lesson and make her put the horse away. If you catch her in the stall getting after the horse, you will tell her to leave the stall and the barn for that day. As parents they should hopefully understand the difference between discipline and abuse...
    Beyond that, its pretty much up to you how involved you want to be with her.

    By the way, I can't help but wonder: where are parents while she is riding? Does she get dropped off and left or is she driving age? At one of my past barns, I saw a number of kids dropped and left; interestingly they were all a handful to deal w/.
    And lastly, if she does like the barn work, perhaps you tell her that if the situations continue that you do not want her around doing that - what if she gets mad and wallops someone else's horse?
    Last edited by 2tempe; Nov. 12, 2012 at 01:31 PM. Reason: added a comment
    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    Bogey2 - what you describe is very different.... and no where near abuse physical or verbal
    No one else was recommending physical or verbal "abuse" of the rider either.

    For some reason you are taking this personally and overreacting to suggestions made.


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  7. #87
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    For some reason you are taking this personally and overreacting to suggestions made.
    ??

    yikes! not my intent ....

    i initially responded to folks saying to rip her off her horse, and to protect teh horse etc.

    my point was just be careful.... parents can be weird about their kids.

    <shrug>

    i *am* fascinated with why i am getting thumbs down for suggesting the above - *that* is intriguing to me!



  8. #88
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    yikes! not my intent ....

    i initially responded to folks saying to rip her off her horse, and to protect teh horse etc.

    my point was just be careful.... parents can be weird about their kids.

    <shrug>
    That's not how your posts read earlier in the thread- perhaps you have edited. You were saying things like - you don't have the right to do this and that.

    You seem to have backpedaled a bit on that. but, no, clearly you were expressing your opinion differently earlier in the thread.

    As for the thumbs up/down- I just ignore those..



  9. #89
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    Apr. 1, 2006
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    Canada
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    I can only relate to myself as a teen, (I'm in my 20s now).

    I didn't have the anger issues that you describe this girl has, but I definitely took things out on my poor horse, and felt horrible afterwards.

    It took an awesome coaches to help me through it. I put a ton of pressure on myself, and if things weren't going well when I was riding everything would go down hill fast. I did a lot of my day to day schooling alone, as I shipped to my lessons. It took awhile but the big things that were established (that I still use today, I can have a horrible temper) were if you're schooling something and it just isn't working go do something completely different, like a hack. If my temper just wasn't going to be diffused I was told to get off, even if it meant we didn't work through the issue, get off and put the horse away. I can also feel when it's building up inside of me, and on those days I don't ride, I go to the gym.

    If she has a lot of built up anger she may need an outlet for it, my favourite thing to do when I'm in a mood where no one will even talk to me is to go to the gym and go a couple round with a punching bag, crank up the stair mill until I'm essentially running up it, or lift some heavy weights.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
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    Dec. 7, 2008
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    Hmm...haven't heard from the OP in some time.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    That's not how your posts read earlier in the thread- perhaps you have edited. You were saying things like - you don't have the right to do this and that.

    You seem to have backpedaled a bit on that. but, no, clearly you were expressing your opinion differently earlier in the thread.
    .
    i have not edited the content of any of my posts here.... i am dyslexic so my spelling sucks and sometimes i edit for that... it will say on my posts whether they have been edited or not....

    i am editing this to add (and i didnt change anything above here) that my post #54 was edited - i changed the word Physiologist to psychologist - other than that my posts are what they are - bad spelling and all ;-)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    I said "perhaps edited" because I just did a quick skim but see now that the earlier comments about it being a matter of "rights" are still there.



  13. #93
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2000
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    Chatham, NY USA
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    Lauralyn: "(I feel I can see her mentally check out when she gets angry)."

    As you talk with her/her parents about this situation, verbalize what you see as she mentally 'checks out'. Is it an expression on her face? A visible tensing of her body? Something else? Ask her to think to a time when she's lost it and see if SHE can recognize these signs.

    After you talked with them and come to some sort of 'contractual' agreement about behaviour modification, you could incorporate a signal (a word, a phrase) that you'll say to this girl when you see her 'checking out'. And include that she MUST respond positively to that signal.

    Good luck! I'm interested in hearing updates.

    Carol
    www.ayliprod.com
    Equine Photography in the Northeast


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2001
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    MA
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    I love a lot of the suggestions here. I also wonder whether part of plan could be to videotape her rides, with her knowledge and the understanding that you both will review them to help her improve her riding. If you were in the habit of videotaping, and one of these episodes occurred, you would be able to show her how it looks from the outside. I wouldn't pose it as "We're going to institute videotaping so you can see how BADLY you treat your horse" but rather "This is another tool we are going to begin to use to improve your riding and horsemanship. Let's see what we can see." I think that the potential for reward here is HUGE, even though it's not super convenient.
    Disclaimer: My mom told me that people might look at my name and think I had an addiction other than horses. I don't; his name was Bravado.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2006
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    SW PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteCamry View Post
    Get these violent outbursts on video; then she can see for herself what she looks like when you show them to her.
    I was going to suggest this... if she's remorseful afterwards, maybe if she see's herself in the act it will make an impact.
    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
    Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
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    I long for the day of former cavalry officers as instructors. None of this backside kissing and constant praise for simply riding a straight line. You worked HARD and the horse ALWAYS came first and received praise. The rider typically just wasn't told what to fix when they were doing it correctly. They're humans and can figure out silence is praise. Horses can't. Horses must be encouraged. Bad human behavior could remove your right to ride your horse and your parents agreed. Dang, we're raising a lot of hot house pansies these days.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
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    Oct. 13, 2010
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    Eden Prairie, MN
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    I agree with the people who say have a little sit-down with both parents and the student. Maybe she does have some anger issues (then again who didn't as a teenager), but it needs to be made clear that 1)Bullying a horse in your barn is just as horrible as bullying someone in school. Taking advantage of or venting anger on anyone, human or animal, is wrong and will not stand in your barn. 2)You are there to support the family in setting girl and horse up for success in the best way for them, which may mean her taking some time off from handling the horse outside of a lesson situation. That may mean being a non-parent adult for the girl to talk to or following the advice of a psychologist in helping her overcome some of her issues. Good luck! This is a difficult situation.



  18. #98
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    Oct. 4, 2010
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    Middle America
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    OP: Sent you a PM!
    In order to think outside the box, one must first know what is in the box.



  19. #99
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    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Dakota View Post
    I can only relate to myself as a teen, (I'm in my 20s now).

    I didn't have the anger issues that you describe this girl has, but I definitely took things out on my poor horse, and felt horrible afterwards.

    It took an awesome coaches to help me through it. I put a ton of pressure on myself, and if things weren't going well when I was riding everything would go down hill fast. I did a lot of my day to day schooling alone, as I shipped to my lessons. It took awhile but the big things that were established (that I still use today, I can have a horrible temper) were if you're schooling something and it just isn't working go do something completely different, like a hack. If my temper just wasn't going to be diffused I was told to get off, even if it meant we didn't work through the issue, get off and put the horse away. I can also feel when it's building up inside of me, and on those days I don't ride, I go to the gym.

    If she has a lot of built up anger she may need an outlet for it, my favourite thing to do when I'm in a mood where no one will even talk to me is to go to the gym and go a couple round with a punching bag, crank up the stair mill until I'm essentially running up it, or lift some heavy weights.
    Especially a good idea if some of it is due to hormones being out of control. And teens have a lot of those issues!
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  20. #100
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    Aug. 13, 2003
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    California USA
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    There are definite issues with this child.The parents need to be informed and the child needs to be told that abusing an animal is not allowed in your barn. What ever her problems are she has to learn she can't strike out at innocent animals. There are too many people out in the world who do that. Her rage is aimed at the horse because she dare not do it to anyone else. You have to be very careful how you do this.



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