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  1. #81
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    Oct. 9, 2012
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    So, I already have health insurance. Am I going to pay extra taxes for someone else's health insurance? How much tax? We don't make anywhere near 250k and probably never will, we really can't afford to pay a big tax increase. How is this going to work for our family? These are the things I want to know and no one seems to have the answers. When are we going to get the answers?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82
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    Aug. 11, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by HorsePlayyy View Post
    My boyfriend works as a surgical assist. He, as well as nearly all of the doctors, are against Obamacare. Many doctors have already refused or turned away people on medicare and I believe more and more are going to do so. What is the federal government going to do about that? Likely force physicians to take anyone on medicare. And how is that okay, taking away the rights of the doctors who worked hard to earn their position?

    If you ever had to go to the ER before, you know how awful those waits can be. So imagine the ER rooms with Obamacare. People are going to be rushing to the hospital because their stomach hurts, leaving those who still need to be seen suffering in the waiting room. Simply, our hospitals will not be able to meet demand, nor will they be able to afford to increase the number of doctors or employees. And who's going to be paying for all those upset stomachs, sore throats, broken fingernails? We are.
    and indeed this shows a complete and utter misunderstanding of what healthcare is about. What about Obamacare do you think suddenly makes these people go to the ER in the future as opposed to now? The WHOLE POINT is that people that go to ER and hospitals today for things that should be covered under preventative medicine or family practice will be REMOVED from the hospital. The cost of going to a family practice doctor is a fraction of going to ER. ERs will become MORE efficient, not less. Honestly, sometimes I just shake my head at folks.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesyl View Post
    I think Massachusetts has that now and while not perfect it seems to work. Health care cost in this country are more than twice per person of the next most expensive country Norway. In 2007 the US spent about 2.2 trillion dollars on health care. (see http://www.kff.org/insurance/7670.cfm). That makes our health care costs about the 6th largest economy in the world. We have to make changes as this is not sustainable in my opinion.
    Lesyl, good point. AND not only are the US healthcare costs more than double per capita than the next country, the US ranks 37th in the WHO rankings of healthcare systems. 37th!!! Way, way below virtually every European country and indeed many countries that we would consider "poor".


    6 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
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    Jun. 12, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I wonder how many would be for or against this same program if it had been called Romneycare?
    Bluey, could you open your mind and understand that Obamacare IS Romeycare. Where do you think Obamacare came from? It came from the state of Mass. Under Gov Romney. Remember who he is?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedespony View Post
    This is a one of our government handy dandy money saving tools that I have used in the past, as have many of my friends:

    http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/publi...ms/telehealth/


    From young children with fevers (that's why I had called, several times!), chest pains, rashes, etc., many sometimes just need a quick phone call with an RN to determine if you can self-care, GP or ER. It's helped me to avoid calling my doctor or heading to the ER.

    And I'm not sure people always need to see a REAL doctor.. a qualified medical professional often times works just as well - PA's, nurse practitioners, etc.
    Likewise in the UK they have something called NHS24. Regardless of where you are in the country you can phone that line 24 hours a day and a qualified nurse/medical practitioner will listen to your problems, ask you about symptoms and advise whether or not you need to go to the ER. Many times someone is just scared and needs reassurance. Here, at midnight, you go to the ER often needlessly. A service like NHS 24 would help reassure people that a massive gas attack was not necessarily a heart attack, and therefore cut down on ER costs.



  6. #86
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by pezk View Post
    Bluey, could you open your mind and understand that Obamacare IS Romeycare. Where do you think Obamacare came from? It came from the state of Mass. Under Gov Romney. Remember who he is?
    I forget that some here just don't have a sense of humor.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    I am continually puzzled by the lack of personal responsibility of folks.... We are perplexed why other folks seem to think we should be expected to pay for THEIR health care, too. This is a mindset I just do not understand.
    Here, let me help. Because THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT. Good, hard working folks cannot afford to pay $1500/mo in healthcare! Its not a matter of "willingly" didn't get health insurance, it is a matter of finding an affordable option! Affordable, meaning, can eat, and pay rent/mortgage and put fuel in the car. And you most certainly ARE paying for their health care! As others have pointed out, a whole lot! And it will be more and more if there are not significant changes.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    Oklahoma
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    I will quickly put in my point of view as an ob/gyn physician, one of the highest malpractice rates out there. As an ob/gyn, we have patients "dropping in" to deliver their babies with us. We know nothing about them, do not know if they are diabetic (at risk for having a very large baby and a dystocia), if the baby has a birth defect (needs higher level of pediatric care that my hospital can't offer), or if the mother has some other major medical problem that has not been treated throughout pregnancy. Most of these moms that come in without prenatal care to deliver do so because they don't have insurance, therefore they can't get in to see a doctor. ( The place where I was at before wouldn't see anyone without insurance. Where I am at now will work out a payment plan. ) These patients are at higher risk for having something go wrong with them or their baby during labor and delivery, and often seem to be quicker to sue because of a lack of patient/doctor relationship and trust.

    Imagine a lady coming in past when her baby is due, 9 cm dilated, is an undiagnosed diabetic, and delivers but has a dystocia and a bad outcome. That could have been prevented with prenatal care - by controlling her diabetes, or even just seeing her a couple of times just prior to delivery and knowing that she had a large baby. To me, being able to give these women some form of health care, will help them out significantly and also help with malpractice issues as well.

    Having some type of preventative health care will also help us out in my field of medicine especially in treating abnormal pap smears and cervical cancer. This is something that is so treatable, as long as women can get into see us to get care.


    18 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
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    Jul. 14, 2006
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    I'm a physician, just graduated in May, and internal medicine resident at a big university academic medical center in the midwest. My hospital provides a TON of "free" care..notice that the free is in quotes. The vast majority of the unviersity physicians I've met were maybe not pleased with every detail of the ACA, but are generally in favor. By law, if you don't have insurance and you come to the ER, we have to treat you, including admitting you to the hospital if it's not safe to send you home. Most of those bills either can't be collected or only a fraction of the cost is collected. If the person is unemployed or very poor, it's simply not worth it to go after them, so the cost gets written off as charity care or otherwise absorbed by the hospital. My institution is state and federally supported. If you don't want your taxes going to pay for other people's healthcare, guess what? It's already happening, just in a way that is incredibly inefficient and wasteful, costs more money in the long run and in some cases costs people their LIVES because they couldn't get preventative care.

    In 5 months since starting residency, I've seen many patients who didn't have insurance, were having serious symptoms and waited until things got too bad to ignore to come to the hospital. Several were ultimately diagnosed with terminal cancer, but types that we have good screening tests for, and reasonable treatment options IF we catch things early........that is, if you have insurance and access to care. For those that say society has no obligation to provide healthcare to its citizens, you haven't had a fellow human being look you in the eye and say, "Tell it to me straight--is this going to kill me? How long do I have?" I have, even though I'm "just" the intern. My patients rarely care that I've had the MD for less than a year. One of these patients asked me if there was any way we could have caught his cancer sooner. When I said yes, there are ways to screen, he interrupted me and said "but I didn't have insurance, and now I'm going to die because of it." He was right. It's very easy to say let 'em die, until you're the one delivering the news.

    BES
    Proudly owned by 2 chestnut mares
    Crayola Posse: sea green
    Mighty Rehabbers Clique


    21 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
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    Nov. 2, 2006
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    Maine
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny59 View Post
    That's what happens now. With Universal health care, A person goes to the primary care provider and keeps the ER doing what the ER should be doing.....
    But there will be such a shortage of primary care doctors or such a wait for an appointment that folks will still end up in the ER. I have a GP and despite a multiple year relationship they still booted me to urgent care when I needed to be seen within 48 hours and the first appointment they could book was two weeks out.

    As a veterinarian who always saw my own urgent care/emergency patients during the day (before switching to life in small animal ER) it has always frustrated me how hard it usually is to get in to see your primary care doctor when you're ill. We have a fair number of family medicine practices in our area, so I haven't known anyone to have trouble getting a GP but I know there are areas of the country where folks are desperate for family medicine practitioners. We are hurting for more OB/Gyn's. At the practice I go to, it is currently a three month wait for an annual checkup.

    This doesn't mean that I am against universal coverage. It just means that there are some major unresolved issues for how to deliver care. I don't know if we can better utilize nurse practitioners and physician's assistants, especially in family medicine. I was surprised to hear of the nursing shortage as the recent nursing graduates I have known have had trouble getting jobs.



  11. #91
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    Jul. 14, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by katarine View Post
    We don't have enough family practice/general practitioners. The money is in the specialties, so that's where the bulk of the doctors went, into specialties.
    IMO, these ideas floating around in the popular media that specialists and surgeons went into their area of medicine because of the money and that if we just paid GPs more, more people would go into primary care are frankly insulting. I just finished the residency match, and I did not hear a single person say that if it weren't for the money, they'd have been a family doc but instead they're going to be a neurosurgeon. For most people it was some combination of personality fit, interest in the field, grades and the kind of life they wanted after residency in terms of hours, night call etc. If you have the personality traits and interests of a surgeon, all the money in the world will not make you into a pediatrician, any more than you could make your local high school's AP calculus teacher want to be a kindergarten teacher just by paying more for teaching kindergarten. And just like we need both people to teach the ABCs and high school physics, as a society we NEED both GPs and specialists. If you are unlucky enough to need surgery or require specialized care (ie bone marrow transplant, chemotherapy, stenting your coronaries, dialysis etc), your family doctor is NOT going to have the expertise you need.

    My medical school had an optional Myers Brigg personality assessment program the senior students were encouraged to do to gain insight into whether the specialty they are considering really fits with their personality. I did it and found the process useful for getting beyond the superficial impressions to really thinking about what kind of work environment is best for my own strengths and weaknesses. BTW, for those that care, I'm an INTJ.

    Plus, some docs, for whatever reason, have a passion for treating a certain disease or group of diseases. I would probably not make the world's best primary care doc. Sure I'm competent for my level of training (I'm a resident) and can manage your high cholesterol and high blood pressure, but it's not what gets me up in the morning. One of my professors used to say that you should do whatever you still find interesting at 2am. For me, that's cancers and pre-cancer conditions of the blood. I hope that the people signing up to be generalists feel about primary care the same way I do about hematology. It's better for everyone, patients and doctors.

    BES
    Proudly owned by 2 chestnut mares
    Crayola Posse: sea green
    Mighty Rehabbers Clique


    8 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
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    Jul. 3, 2005
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    BC, Canada - PNW
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    Sorry to sound snarky, but I can't help but wonder why is he playing a high contact sport like football if he has no health insurance.

    Sort of like the person on the other thread with the broken wrist - I am deeply sorry she is injured, but she willingly took a job in a profession with a pretty good risk of getting hurt at some point, she willingly didn't secure health insurance, and she is now complaining because the ortho wants to charge her $3800 (or whatever) to repair her fracture.

    I am continually puzzled by the lack of personal responsibility of folks. Mr DY and I have paid out over $1500 each month for quite a few years now for three separate medical policies because we feel that our health care is OUR responsibility. We are perplexed why other folks seem to think we should be expected to pay for THEIR health care, too. This is a mindset I just do not understand.
    So only people who choose to take part in risky activities get hurt and need medical care? So if you can't afford insurance, you shouldn't go out in public, or really, LIVE, because medical disorders and cancer and car accidents and lightning could strike anybody, regardless of whether they are "personally responsible" and able to afford healthcare?


    9 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
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    Jan. 5, 2010
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    VA--> Washington (state)
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    I'm in Fam Med & my dad is a hospitalist. I think our patients benefit from it. No healthcare system is perfect but I can tell you there is a huge discrepancy between the care offered and recieved by those who have good insurance and those who either have none or the bare minimum.
    For the patients whose life has dealt them a crummy hand, whether its medical, socioeconomic or what have you, imho they still have a right to good medical care and if someone can't pay for it, we owe to everyone.
    The EDs/urgent cares are flooded with patients lacking insurance (no insurance = (in most cases) no primary care provider) who either can't stand their symptoms any longer or have no one who will see them. As I tell my patients, the ED is for emergencies only, not for your BP med refill, your pregnancy test (yes, it's true), or a cold.
    And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Thank you, doctors and people really in healthcare, for your ideas. Your reactions remind me of the thread I started about healthcare and how people in Canada actually feel about national healthcare. There were many people who "knew" people from Canada who had horror stories who thought it was just awful. When the actual Canadians chimed in, almost 100% positive.

    It seems like the people in the medical field feel that at least this is a step in the right direction.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
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    Jul. 3, 2005
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    BC, Canada - PNW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Thank you, doctors and people really in healthcare, for your ideas. Your reactions remind me of the thread I started about healthcare and how people in Canada actually feel about national healthcare. There were many people who "knew" people from Canada who had horror stories who thought it was just awful. When the actual Canadians chimed in, almost 100% positive.

    It seems like the people in the medical field feel that at least this is a step in the right direction.
    Canadian chiming in with some positivity! *Some* things are slow (like orthopaedics), but it means that my friend who felt sick and was diagnosed with Leukemia got treated right away no issues. It means my 88 year old grandmother gets looked at and has her blood pressure under control and got her knee replaced (eventually). It means that I don't have to hear any more stories like my boss (when I lived in the states) who was scared to go to the hospital because of money, eventually being diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer.

    Some people abuse ERs (just like in the states), but what's really common around here is medical clinics. I don't have a GP per se, but I use the same clinics over and over again. I can see a doc anytime, for anything, and get referred for what I need. So NO, people aren't going to the ER for sore throats. Many walkins are open till 9 and on weekends so the ER is generally for (surprise) emergencies!

    I personally have had frustrations up here -- I blew both ACLs, one while living in the States with fancy expensive insurance, and one up here. Of course it was going to take longer to get dealt with up here, and so I ended up going private (which should be allowed and more prevalent, as long as its regulated to not tax the public system). But last year when I had an appendectomy and showed up at the ER and stayed for 2 days and had surgery, I also didn't pay a penny beyond my usual $54/monthly MSP. Prescriptions generally aren't covered, but care, testing, access is. We still have supplemental insurance and benefits for extra coverage, dental, vision and perks in the hospital (private rooms, etc). My spouse is headed in for hernia surgery Friday, and it's been rescheduled twice because more emergent situations come up. Yes, we're frustrated, but we also have to remember that he's otherwise healthy and is still functioning 100% in his physically demanding job and life.

    Healthcare shouldn't be only for the wealthy. People shouldn't be trying to go to jail just so they can get the healthcare they need. Pretty hard to have productive members of society if they aren't healthy.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
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    Jul. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshfield View Post
    But there will be such a shortage of primary care doctors or such a wait for an appointment that folks will still end up in the ER. I have a GP and despite a multiple year relationship they still booted me to urgent care when I needed to be seen within 48 hours and the first appointment they could book was two weeks out.

    As a veterinarian who always saw my own urgent care/emergency patients during the day (before switching to life in small animal ER) it has always frustrated me how hard it usually is to get in to see your primary care doctor when you're ill. We have a fair number of family medicine practices in our area, so I haven't known anyone to have trouble getting a GP but I know there are areas of the country where folks are desperate for family medicine practitioners. We are hurting for more OB/Gyn's. At the practice I go to, it is currently a three month wait for an annual checkup.

    This doesn't mean that I am against universal coverage. It just means that there are some major unresolved issues for how to deliver care. I don't know if we can better utilize nurse practitioners and physician's assistants, especially in family medicine. I was surprised to hear of the nursing shortage as the recent nursing graduates I have known have had trouble getting jobs.
    Yes, we need more primary care doctors (with or without the ACA), but that is no reason to not provide primary health care to people that need it. And I agree with having NPs and PAs handle a lot of it. I haven't actually seen a MD in years, all my work has been with a PA. This includes two accidents involving broken bones. I have been quite happy with that approach.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
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    Jul. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you kidding?
    Didn't you read how the government is barely paying now and takes weeks/months for doctors to be paid?
    No wonder doctors are not holding their breath that will work even close to what they have now.
    They are paying. Yes it takes time, but the insurance companies take their time as well. They important part is they ARE getting paid.


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  18. #98
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    May. 12, 2001
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    Was a manager at one of the largest non-profit hospitals/long-term care facilities in the US. Most of our hospital administration and doctors supported and campaigned for ACA and single payer health care.

    Agree that a lot of problems people are claiming ACA will create actually already existed with the former healthcare regime and health insurance plans. I've definitely had to fight with my employer benefit plans to pay for procedures and medications my doctors already approved.

    As for people going to the ER for basic procedures because they can't afford or get access to healthcare otherwise? That's been going on for years under EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act signed in '86 by Reagan), well before Romneycare came into being.
    Snobbington Hunt clique - Whoopee Wagon Fieldmaster
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  19. #99
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    Mar. 30, 2004
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    The "nursing shortage" isn't exactly true from this Nurse Practitioner's perspective.... My experience as well as most other nurses I know and work with is that unless you have experience, you can't get a job. There are many new grad nurses who cannot find work, and there are still people talking about a "nursing shortage". It's a training shortage. There aren't slots in post-RN residency programs, and there aren't hospitals willing to re-train or train RN's.
    send some of their smart literate deer who can read road signs up here since ours are just run of the mill dumb ones who get splatted all over creation because they won't stay in the woods


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  20. #100
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    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you kidding?
    Didn't you read how the government is barely paying now and takes weeks/months for doctors to be paid?
    No wonder doctors are not holding their breath that will work even close to what they have now.
    As someone who does the billing for our clinic, let me tell you that we would gladly wait a bit longer for our money if it meant that we would be reimbursed for more than 40% of what we charge.

    Do you know why fees are so high? Because the ins. co.s can just "write off" (and that is what they call it, right there on the EOB) a sizeable chunk. Add to that the ENORMOUS deductibles, and suddenly that $300 visit nets us $75. Then we have to go and dispute it with the ins. co, and then go back to the patient for the rest of it, who also may or may not pay. Sometimes they just can't.

    All of this requires time, supplies, and $$ for payroll, which of course goes back to our patients by having to raise fees or limit services.

    I'll take the gov't taking a stab at it, god knows the private sector isn't doing much good at it.


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