[caffeinated]

I SAID I didn't know if it was true! I wasn't about to read through 2700 pages to check it out for myself!

And if you've read that bill....you have my utmust admiration! SERIOUSLY

If you don't know if things are true, why repeat/spread them?

As for the microchip thing - that rumor has been around in one form or another for decades, and whoever the president happens to be at the time usually "is behind it"

[Louise]

We need a strong military. We must be capable of defending ourselves. I'll even go so far as to say that we must be the strongest military nation in the world, by far, because we are the biggest target.

But, if we pride ourselves on being good businesspeople, then surely we can find a way to do so efficiently and effectively for less than we are spending now. Here's an interesting chart. Yes, I got it from Wikipedia. It is, however, sourced from SIPRI -- the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures
Numbers make my head spin but, when I did some simple addition, it looks to me like we are spending more on the military than the rest of the top 15 in the world combined. We're spending $711 billion. The other 14 are spending $667 billion combined.

Businesspeople pride themselves on doing more for less to improve the health of their bottom line and keep their stockholders happy. Maybe, if we apply good business principles to government, we should be looking at the same with our military. Do more for less and keep the stockholders (the people of the US) happy.

[5]

Plus Prop 30 passed so the state will have more money than ever. Think they will use it to make new bridges and replace the failing infrastructure mentioned?
No.

It will go to bloated pensions to Gov workers so they can retire at 50 with 80% of their salary 100% medical, and a slew of other bennies that I can't recall right now.
Kalifornia is now the #1 highest taxes state in the US.

Watch it go the way of greece.
I give it ten years before complete collapse.

[Delyth]

I SAID I didn't know if it was true! I wasn't about to read through 2700 pages to check it out for myself!

And if you've read that bill....you have my utmust admiration! SERIOUSLY

I also admire anyone who has the patience to read a 2700 page bill end-to-end. I certainly couldn't do that without my eyes crossing half-way through.

However, it is possible to do a search on the document and look for key terms like implant, microchip, "medical records" and so on.

I am also puzzled why urban legends manage to make the rounds and suck in so many otherwise intelligent people. I've had to gently ask my mother to please stop sending them on to me like they are gospel truth -- there really are no hordes of robbers stalking parking lots while armed with ether-filled perfume bottles, and boycotting gasoline on a certain day will not bring oil companies to their knees and lower prices.

One of the best ways to determine whether some emotional claim is true is to ask yourself: "why isn't this on the mainstream news?" Because lord knows, the media would LOVE to run stories guaranteed to sell headlines. If there were a scrap of proof about business travelers waking up in bathtubs missing their kidneys, stories like that would be plastered all over. Because people would want to read all about it (they still do, obviously, even when it's false.)

And please don't fall for the "liberal media is biased so they won't run stories that hurt a democrat." Most of the reporters I have ever met would sell out their own grandmother if it was a good story

Snopes.com is a good resource.

[Calamber]

Are you kidding, a man who lies like this one does, violates the US Constitution so many times you need a handheld device to keep track, and is the most boorishy stupid and uncultured individual to ever stain the White House, he makes Andrew Jackson look refined. Respect for the office, yes, respect for this killer? Not only no, but hell no. The only reason Romney lost besides all of the fraud and corruption involved in the counts all over the place, is that the Republican Party decided to captitulate to Wall Street too. Look at the shambles of New York and what is the president doing after parading around with that disgrace of an overfed NJ Congressman!? Nothing. Civilization is very close to being extinguished because right on cue, David Cameron, as soon as Obama was "reelected" went on a tour of the Middle East calling for war, war, war.He just can't decide where to start the confligration first, Syria or Iran.
I think this is why Tony Blair was stationed in Chicago during the entire campaign, to rig er, direct the show. Now NATO is saying that they will get involved in supporting the rebels in Syria. The dirty drug soaked money that has been going in to support the rebels from the George Soros, British and Saudi Empire money is enough to make your head spin. These are very dangerous times. We better wake up or the "Potty" System is going to kill us all, just like George Washington warned. We need Glass-Steagall now, now now. New National Bank credit creation for large scale construction projects like NAWAPA. And this can be done worldwide, or watch out hyperinflation or nuclear leading to thermonucelar war. Obama can still be impeached or removed, remember Nixon and he did not do 1/10th of what has been done to overthrow Constitutional guarantees like NerObama.

[showhorsegallery]

And just how was the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the two current wars in Iraq and Afganistan defending ourselves? Did any of those countries attack us? Huh? Well did they? No, we just go over there and bomb the crap out of them based on a bunch of manipulative lies.

Hard to understand those people naive enough and ignorant enough to believe the government propaganda regarding justifications for any of these wars. Right wing warmongers count on it though. I can only imagine how much money Halliburton gave to the Romney campaign but Republican lead congressional legislation made sure stuff like that is confidential.

Desiring a strong military for our protection does not mean that I supported the wars in Iraq, Korea, or Vietnam. You are making assumptions about my beliefs based on your own bias.

I know this is a loooooong thread, but if you had gone back and read my other posts you would know that I don't support the US as the World's policeman.

As far as Afghanistan goes we had every justification for going into there. That country harbored terrorist who attacked our country.

[minnie]

I'm all for truces!

THANK YOU!

[Delyth]

"A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy..." Professor Alexander Fraser Tyler writing when the states were still colonies of Great Britain, explaining why democracies always fail.

I realize this is starting to feel like I am picking on you, minnie...but I promise that is not true. You're just the one who posted this quote that I see constantly and which I find a great example of the "cut-and-paste-and-then-its-gospel-truth" trend that BOTH SIDES tend to follow. For the record, my mother, whom I dearly love, is an enthusiastic, liberal Democrat and she is one of THE WORST at passing on unsubstantiated internet gossip. Bless her heart. lol

This quote has been making the internet rounds for about 12 years now.

from snopes.com:

"The 'Alexander Tyler' quoted at the head of the article is actually Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Frasier Tytler, a Scottish historian/professor who wrote several books in the late 1700's and early 1800's. However, there is no record of Tytler's having authored a work entitled The Fall of the Athenian Republic (or The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic), and the quoted material attributed to him is likely apocryphal."

[caffeinated]

We need a strong military. We must be capable of defending ourselves. I'll even go so far as to say that we must be the strongest military nation in the world, by far, because we are the biggest target.

I think another thing we need to really think about is WHY we are the biggest target. Every time we start this particular conversation someone spins it as "apologizing" for America, but we have to really look objectively at what we've done in the world, and develop a different track so that history doesn't repeat itself. When have our interventions bitten us in the ass? When have they been welcomed and successful? Unfortunately when leadership changes every 4-8 years and has different goals and ideas, our foreign policy can't be predictable and consistent over decades, which makes this hard. But we can't just beef up our military without addressing what the threats are, WHY they are threats, and how we adjust our position and policy to (to put it bluntly) make fewer people hate us.

[pezk]

It is one thing to defend yourself, it's another to force your ideas of govt on other nations.

[minnie]

I realize this is starting to feel like I am picking on you, minnie...but I promise that is not true. You're just the one who posted this quote that I see constantly and which I find a great example of the "cut-and-paste-and-then-its-gospel-truth" trend that BOTH SIDES tend to follow. For the record, my mother, whom I dearly love, is an enthusiastic, liberal Democrat and she is one of THE WORST at passing on unsubstantiated internet gossip. Bless her heart. lol

This quote has been making the internet rounds for about 12 years now.

from snopes.com:

"The 'Alexander Tyler' quoted at the head of the article is actually Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Frasier Tytler, a Scottish historian/professor who wrote several books in the late 1700's and early 1800's. However, there is no record of Tytler's having authored a work entitled The Fall of the Athenian Republic (or The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic), and the quoted material attributed to him is likely apocryphal."

You can pick on me all you want. I'm kinda used to it.

The sentiment "rings true" no matter where it originated. IMHO

[carolprudm]

Are you kidding, a man who lies like this one does, violates the US Constitution so many times you need a handheld device to keep track, and is the most boorishy stupid and uncultured individual to ever stain the White House, he makes Andrew Jackson look refined. Respect for the office, yes, respect for this killer? Not only no, but hell no. The only reason Romney lost besides all of the fraud and corruption involved in the counts all over the place, is that the Republican Party decided to captitulate to Wall Street too. Look at the shambles of New York and what is the president doing after parading around with that disgrace of an overfed NJ Congressman!? Nothing. Civilization is very close to being extinguished because right on cue, David Cameron, as soon as Obama was "reelected" went on a tour of the Middle East calling for war, war, war.He just can't decide where to start the confligration first, Syria or Iran.
I think this is why Tony Blair was stationed in Chicago during the entire campaign, to rig er, direct the show. Now NATO is saying that they will get involved in supporting the rebels in Syria. The dirty drug soaked money that has been going in to support the rebels from the George Soros, British and Saudi Empire money is enough to make your head spin. These are very dangerous times. We better wake up or the "Potty" System is going to kill us all, just like George Washington warned. We need Glass-Steagall now, now now. New National Bank credit creation for large scale construction projects like NAWAPA. And this can be done worldwide, or watch out hyperinflation or nuclear leading to thermonucelar war. Obama can still be impeached or removed, remember Nixon and he did not do 1/10th of what has been done to overthrow Constitutional guarantees like NerObama.

I'm speechless

[Natalie]

I'm speechless

Hahaha that was my reaction too. I think it's better to just laugh, roll your eyes, shrug, and move on. There's too much crazy in there to even bother addressing.

[stolen virtue]

I'm speechless

Yes, there are people who really think this way.......and some people have radio talk shows to further esplain the world to them.

[rcloisonne]

As far as Afghanistan goes we had every justification for going into there. That country harbored terrorist who attacked our country.

Huh. I thought he was found in Pakistan.

Besides, how would we feel if another country started an unprovoked bombing of our country because they *suspected* we were harboring a terrorist? Do any of you actual question some of the outrageous things we do or are we always "right"?

Personally, I don't beleive it is any more likely OBL was responsible for 9-11 than that anti-muslim video caused the attack on the American embassy in Benghazi.

[saje]

I'm speechless

What's even scarier is that so far there are 15 thumbs up for that "most boorishy stupid and uncultured" post.

[big_red_ottb]

I'm speechless

Yep....I read it, muttered "I can't even," and am now going on with my day....

[big_red_ottb]

What's even scarier is that so far there are 15 thumbs up for that "most boorishy stupid and uncultured" post.

I think those are actually thumbs down...."0 out of 16 people appreciated this post"

[Catsdorule-sigh]

Louise:
Numbers make my head spin but, when I did some simple addition, it looks to me like we are spending more on the military than the rest of the top 15 in the world combined. We're spending $711 billion. The other 14 are spending $667 billion combined.

Businesspeople pride themselves on doing more for less to improve the health of their bottom line and keep their stockholders happy. Maybe, if we apply good business principles to government, we should be looking at the same with our military. Do more for less and keep the stockholders (the people of the US) happy.

Because the business of the military-industrial complex is good business-for some. Government run by good business principles, (Which would be in the eye of who it benefits most) would only make things worse, because they would be beholden to the bottom line of those who profit insanely from the coffers that you and I provide via taxes and payment on loans to keep the budget for war bloated. War is profitable and those who profit from it don't care about "the people." Government as business is a racket, laws passed to insure that money keeps flowing to those who need it least. Catherine Austin Fitts had a real example in the prison system. Gosh, if you legalized Mary Jane, there would go all those jailed for minimal possession and the resultant lack of jail cells to pay for. Incarceration has become outsourced, privatized, big business- as just one example- and we pay for it. I'm not saying yay or nay on legalizing MJ, it's just an example of how "government on the business plan" works. Privatizing what used to be accomplished via the government was just a scheme sold to increase things business could profit from. So where is the middle ground? Maybe we were there in the 50's-60's, who knows. But we're way, way too much in the hands of "business" and bankers right now.

The media? Look into the ownership and what else those corporations have invested in, and you will realize that they'll feed you only so much but no real truth or investigation will ever take place because if the media really did that, it would not be good for the overall corporate bottom line. There never has been a real, liberal media. That's propaganda fed from the far right media organization, that causes the alleged "liberal" side to move ever further right, until there really is no more liberal- but the masses never seem to realize how that works.

[LauraKY]

The democratic ads in Ohio were horrendous, not one Obama ad outlined his plan to aid in the ecomonic recovery or what his plan was for the next 4 years. They based their ad campaign on fear, fear of losing their "Obama phones", food stamps, Medicaid checks and taking away SS. So please, don't try that approach, it doesn't work. The majority of Ohio counties voted for Romney who are hard working small town Americans who care about this country. And, look at Kentucky, most of Kentucky felt that way too. My views should not be diminished or dismissed just because I happened to vote for the other candidate. I have no hate for Obama, I just don't agree wth his policies or the way he has governed this country for the past 4 years. Again, almost half of the country voted Romney and voicing our concerns is a still a right in this country!

You're still with the GOP talking points. Obamaphones...that's been debunked, just fact check it.

I totally agree with voicing concerns, but when you have mainstream policiticians talking about Kenya, birth certificates, self deportation, electric fences and the food stamp President, diminishing the horror of rape and access to birth control, you've got yourself a problem. The world is changing, the GOP is going to have to change with it.

As far as Kentucky goes, well what can I say, they don't like a black man in the white house unless he's serving dinner.