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  1. #41
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    Sep. 19, 2008
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    There are people who think having one scammer means we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can't change human nature; there will always be someone trying to get over. I, for one, realize that barnacles are slowing down the ship but are in no real danger of sinking her. Let's scrape them off as we can but make sure we aren't letting anyone fall overboard while doing so.
    Holy crap, how does Darwin keep missing you? ~Lauruffian


    9 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    42,991

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    Quote Originally Posted by axl View Post
    There are people who think having one scammer means we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can't change human nature; there will always be someone trying to get over. I, for one, realize that barnacles are slowing down the ship but are in no real danger of sinking her. Let's scrape them off as we can but make sure we aren't letting anyone fall overboard while doing so.
    There is a point where barnacles can weight the ships down and sink them.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    Jul. 3, 2012
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    This is how it went for me. As my health (cardiac, among other things) deteriorated, I missed more and more days. Also, I was late a lot because of side effects of medications (diarhhea). My employer decided I was no longer a valuable employee and DECIDED FOR ME that I should go on THEIR long-term disability. I loved my job and didn't want to leave. I asked for help with the parts that I found the most troublesome (talking on the phone) but was denied. So I was sent home collecting 70% of my salary. My employer then instructed me to apply for disability thru Social Security. My employer would have continued to pay the 70% but they wanted the gov't to pick up some of it. I was instructed that I had to pursue EVERY rejected with an appeal. Finally, I went before a magistrate (without an attorney) and was ordered to testify and answer their question. I also had to present a sheaf of documents from doctors about my various conditions. The magistrate's decision was that I was unable to work. So I 'went on disability'. After a few months, I went back to my old job to visit. The girl who replaced me had 2 assistants to do the same work I had been doing. If they had gotten me the help I asked for I'd still be working there.

    I was forced into this situation in order to collect the benefits from my employer. It sure wasn't my choice. And as much as I love my kids and husband , I cried and felt sorry for myself everytime they got a better job, a promotion because they were moving up in their careers and I was stuck at 70% of what I had been.

    For me, disability has been a huge emotional trial.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaintedHunter View Post
    Nothing at all to do with Obamacare. It's been this way the 15 years she's been working there, and I'm sure extending well well well beyond that. It's bureaucracy and people without medical knowledge making the rules and exceptions.
    I'm sorry my point wasn't clear. Your friend said common sense isn't factored into the claims process- it's all rules and regulations done by people without medical knowledge. Obamacare is rules and regulations like we've never experienced before.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Jan. 19, 2000
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    Ellijay, GA
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    My nieghbor is on disabilty...has been for a few years. Also has a handicap tag on his truck. He apparently hurt his back.

    This is the same man who RAN down a steep hill two winters ago when we were building our fence to cuss us out on our own propery...he later damn near passed out and admitted he was so strung out on pain meds he didnt know how he got to our property.
    This is also the same man who can ride his tractor and bale 30 acres of hay twice a year..and haul his horses to the local county arena for ropings in the summer.

    I doubt his level of disabilty...
    Busy Bee Farm, Ellijay, GA
    Never Ride Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly
    Way Back Texas~04/20/90-09/17/08
    Green Alligator "Captain"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by axl View Post
    When you start a sentence "with all due respect" you are almost invariably going to be disrespectful. While you MAY know "everything about the person and the situation" (which I feel is unlikely) you didn't make that clear in your original post, so don't be rude to people answering the question you asked.

    I have a 20% VA disability because of 3 herniated disks and degenerative disk disease. Most of the time I'm fine. It's been several years since I had a serious incident. I don't ride any more, or run, or lift things, but I hold down 2 jobs and most of the time feel like I'm a fraud accepting a government check when there are soldiers coming home in far worse shape. That money, however, has also paid for the chiropractor that keeps me in such good shape, and I'm always just a slip or a twist away from the hospital. Lots of people probably don't know I have any problems, but I shouldn't have to justify myself to them.
    Whoa, my intent was not to come across as rude and I apologize if that was the appearance, honestly. I do know this person VERY well- past and present. This person has also purchased a round trip plane ticket to travel to Europe next month.

    Folks have shared their personal experiences on how the assistance helps them and that many wish they did not need the safety net. In the example I gave it's not a question of the person attending a therapeutic riding program, the question was if everything has failed and you are on disability is correct to own and compete on two horses? Vacation1 answered my question directly in the answer on page 1.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Michigan
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    10,632

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    There is a point where barnacles can weight the ships down and sink them.
    Yeah, but I would be there are a LOT more barnacles on the Medicare ship right now, but God forbid anyone try to touch that.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    Jun. 14, 2006
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    VA
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    In the case you describe I think that it's fine to OWN horses. And even compete if you want to push that hard and really do have an issue. But there is an element there that sounds like someone might be milking the system a bit. That said, we all pay in when we're working...

    I don't really see how the trip to Europe ties in. People in wheelchairs go to Europe. Is it the money that is bothering you? Because technically, you can be on disability no matter your savings account balance. Or you can go to Europe on disability because someone else is buying your ticket.

    I might be getting the wrong vibe...but this sounds a little "sour grapes". I can't quite put my finger on it. Do you think he's defrauding the gov't by faking a disability? Or do you feel like to qualify, someone should be pretty much immobile?

    My mom was hospitalized with CHF due to (still unresolved) a-fib in August. By the time she sought medical attention, she could barely walk from the front door to the car in the driveway without taking a break. Driving really wasn't safe as she also has now suffered 5 TIAs as a result (they think) of the clotting due to the a-fib.

    The people at the hospital recommended that she try to file for disability because working (without insurance) she didn't qualify for a lot of the lower cost programs AND because for now, she is somewhat limited on what she can do physically.

    However, the only way I got her to start MOVING post hospitalization was to get her out to see her horses. At first, she was only strong enough to brush them for a few minutes before she needed a break. After about a week, she could even lead them around to hand graze and was walking from the parking lot to the paddock without getting too winded.

    She didn't apply for disability. But, we were assured she would qualify. I can't know for sure.

    But in her case, 2 mos out, she is riding (lightly), piddling around at the barn, etc. For her, this is HUGELY beneficial. IF she were on disability, I could see how someone would say "hey, if you can do that, you shouldn't be on disability!"

    But it's BECAUSE she has the horses (and access to great care) that I believe she is alive right now. The horses make her want to get out of bed and DO SOMETHING. It gives her something to care for, care about. Motivation to get out there around other people (Who are my eyes and ears because I live states away).

    I KNOW there's abuse out there. But I also think about when I've been on "stall rest" or not felt well and have pushed through to do something I like even though it hurts. Maybe some of these "apparent abusers" really are just human beings who desperately want to hold onto some part of their life prior to disability.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Jan. 9, 2012
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    I'm not on disability either- I work full time, and am lucky to have an understanding job when I have flare-ups. But I must also say that, like others, when I got back into riding two years ago, my health IMPROVED because of the mental aspect and stress relief of being around horses.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Jan. 9, 2006
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    GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherfinemess View Post
    I totally get where you are coming from SLW. Here in my small midwestern community I know many people who are on disability (SSI). The majority of them have been on it for years. They might have originally had a problem but now have extremely active lives. Some trail riding all over the country, some showing at a high level, some holding down full time jobs. It seems to me if you can work you don't need to be on disability but it appears that once you start getting it, you are eligible for life. No physicals or reassessments of any sort. It seems like it is much harder to get disability now and I know people who genuinely need it and have been repeatedly turned down. It just doesn't seem fair.

    I agree that not all disabilities can be seen and some seemingly normal people are in fact disabled. People with auto-immune diseases or people with diminished lungs being prime examples.

    But it doesn't seem fair that people who can take care of their farm, their family, and ride as many hours as they please every day of the year are classified as disabled. My moral code wouldn't allow me to take the money, but apparently it doesn't bother them.

    These aren't your typical sleazy beat the system types, they would be considered upstanding citizens in the community. I know they are all on disabilty because one of them shared it at a horse related potluck dinner and one after another contributed their tale of receiving disability. I heard it myself. If it is this rampant in my small community (less than 1,000 people), what is it like nationwide?
    Not always. I have a friend who lost her lower leg. She is on disability. Do you know that a couple years afterwards, she was called in to verify that she was still disabled? Trina is a smart alec, so she walks in, undoes the fake leg and puts it on the desk and says"Nope, still using the fake one as the real one didn't grow back"

    I don't approve of how she spends her money (she has some "issues") but it is not my call.

    Daddy got disability due to a USN career-severe hearing loss (being on a tarmac will do that to you), screwing up his back royally, and a bout with JP40 which caused severe chemical pnuemonia and lung issues. He still worked with horses and farmed. It was what he knew and what he loved. He had to make accomodations for how he did stuff-couldn't work harder, so he had to work smarter.

    There are freeloaders out there, yes, but there are many that try to have as normal a life as possible, despite the disability. Can you imagine how productive some of these people we are talking about could be if they were whole hale and healthy? They have proven that though they are not capable 100% of the time, they do the best they can with what they have physically. They also pay the price. How many of us here could fathom not having horses and still being the same people we are? I flat tell my dh he can pay horse bills or psych bills, his choice.
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    May. 15, 2006
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    Eastern WV Panhandle
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    I only know two people who are on disability, though in both their cases it's service-related (military) rather than through SSI. One lady rated at 30% (back problems, I wince when I see her walk as it's obvious she's in some pain) but she still works as a GS-12 federal employee. I doubt she'd consider riding horses.

    The other is missing his leg from the knee down from a roadside bomb in the sandbox. He's a SAHD - and I dare anyone to say he doesn't work keeping up with his two boys.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Jan. 25, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaintedHunter View Post
    Not true that you're on it for life- they do review cases after the person is receiving benefits. (My BFF works in the SSI organization and has told me all about it). You can also report fraud if you think someone is truly gaming the system.
    My sister was a hearing officer until she retired recently. They frequently severed benefits if the person was able to persue other interests. People would get mad when they went to youtube or facebook and saw them doing something that should have been precluded by their disability.
    A proud friend of bar.ka.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by saultgirl View Post
    I totally understand that disabilities may be invisible, but I would think if a person receives enough income from a disability cheque alone to pay all living expenses and then own and show two horses, that maybe we're handing out too much money?
    So because someone is on disability they are supposed to live in penury and have no joy in their lives?
    http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

    Originally Posted by JSwan
    I love feral children. They taste like chicken.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
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    Aug. 17, 2004
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    Rixeyville, VA
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    Disability benefits are not paid contingent on how much money you have in the bank or other sources of income you may have. Disability benefits are paid due to your inability to work, typically work you are qualified to perform by education and training, but in some cases, any work. Disability benefits comes from a number of sources including private insurance, employer based STD and LTD plans, workers comp, and SSI. Disability benefits are paid out if you meet the requirements for the claim, period. While I agree that most people on disability benefits don't have much else in the way of supporting themselves, they would not be penalized if they did have substantial savings. They also could have a well-off spouse.

    And there is some choice in disability. I know a number of disabled people who could collect benefits but work instead. I specifically think of my neighbor who has been a paraplegic for more than a decade and yet he works full time at a regular job outside of his home. His injury is a slam-dunk presumptive disability, but he has not applied for benefits. And yes, he had driven my horses in competition, too.

    I've learned not to make too many assumptions about disabled people. There's too much variety to generalize.
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    Dec. 13, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Mom View Post
    My sister was a hearing officer until she retired recently. They frequently severed benefits if the person was able to persue other interests. People would get mad when they went to youtube or facebook and saw them doing something that should have been precluded by their disability.
    This and a couple other comments are what really make me feel this is a medical decision. It's not best left to hearings officers or neighbors. A doctor has the best sense of if a person is able to work or not. And even some of them will get it wrong. But I don't know if someone showing up at a horse show on youtube, or on a tractor or going for a vacation means they are malingering, or just having a good day, or are just better off not trying to keep up with a modern work schedule. I'm not qualified to say. OTOH, if someone follows the rec's of their doctor by making all appointments and labs and therapies (which take place during work hours), avoids triggers (fluorescent light, standing for 10hrs, lifting) and engaging in activities which are therapeutic and support good health, wouldn't we expect that person to look and feel better??? Should we really expect someone whose work is aggravating their illness to get sicker when they stop working? To live in bed to appease our judgments?

    And it's already been said, but most disability is earned, like insurance you pay for, you don't know the source of someone's income just b/c you know they are not working for health reasons, and sometimes people say they have "back problems" b/c it's an easy way to end a conversation w/o discussing their cancer, fibro, bipolar disorder, etc etc that isn't really other people's business.

    I have seen people lose their homes and die waiting to get benefits they paid into and should have received. I've never seen anyone get disability (other than through like short-term disability from their own health insurance) for just one moderately significant health problem. The real scam is Dr's reports being ignored by the SSA and judges for 2years until an attorney gets involved and gets a cut (of what the sick person really could have used for, like, rent). It all seems some weird fraudulent, faux industry.
    An auto-save saved my post.

    I might be a cylon


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Jan. 9, 2012
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    my friend who works at SSI has told me that they really don't ignore paperwork from applicants. If there's a delay, what is usually happening is that the doctor's paperwork isn't complete, and despite many contacts, no one sends in revised forms, etc. But, there is an "art" to how to write things up in language that enables the applicant to be granted disability, or including certain items. She agrees that the system needs reformation in application criteria.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Jul. 24, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyGiantPony View Post
    So because someone is on disability they are supposed to live in penury and have no joy in their lives?
    Owning and showing 2 horses is not cheap. That is big-time luxury.
    Jigga:
    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
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    Jan. 9, 2006
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    GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by saultgirl View Post
    Owning and showing 2 horses is not cheap. That is big-time luxury.
    I am assuming that this person is not showing local shows, but A shows or breed shows? Depending on where you are, local saddle club shows are cheap. Breed or A circuit is not.
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  19. #59
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    Nov. 13, 2007
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    Well, this kind of hits close to home for me right now. I was just diagnosed with an autoimmune issue (ulcerative colitis) and, while I'm working now, it hasn't been easy. I'm a litigator, so 10 hour days and being in court all day is pretty special with UC. There may come a time when I can't do it, and I'll be collecting on my disability policies.

    You bet I'll still have a horse, because (god willing) I'll be collecting on my disability policies that I pay for in the event I can't practice my profession anymore, and my husband will (god willing) still be working, and while I maybe won't always be able to litigate there isn't any reason I can't ride horses...you don't generally ride for 8 hours a day.

    If they can financially make it work, I don't see an issue. If they are defrauding the system...well, then no that's not ok.
    "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
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    Feb. 28, 2006
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    The rocky part of KY
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    I own two, feed and house them and could hit the local shows a couple times a year for about the payments on a new Corolla. Or a late model used Corolla for that matter, factoring in no or little down.

    I've been in the judgemental camp before when seeing coworkers on OWCP (company workers comp) posting their waterskiing pics on Fb, but I also know all about the bad days that go with the good waterskiing days thanks to my Mom with MS. I think we would be better off thinking of disability as being like any other insurance that we pay into - I get mad at my friends with nice cars that wreck them and the insurance gets them a new car, same payments. I know that I won't be able to replace my old car with the insurance money if I wreck it, I'll be back to making payments again and that seems a bit wrong to me.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible


    2 members found this post helpful.

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