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  1. #241
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    I don't understand why we have to determine if something is a "luxury" or a necessity in order to be treated at the hospital.

    A few months ago, a cother who is a school teacher was flamed for not saving enough money to pay for medical bills for a new horse she bought after having to put her old horse down. (She bought a horse which had strangles, unbeknownst to her.) Which begs the question: Why aren't our teachers paid more money?

    What is a luxury to someone may be a necessity to another. Cell phones can lead police to criminals. E.g, when Michael Jordan's father was killed, calls from his cell phone led police to the 2 guys who murdered him for his Lexus and his cell. I've tried several cases where the cell phones were taken during carjackings and murders. Police tracked the calls to the killers.
    So I think ALL cell phones are a necessity. The more features the better. Cameras on them can show crimes in action, and save lives. And convict criminals.

    The bottom line is that no person should suffer pain or be denied health care because he/she does not have health ins. The government should pay for health care for its citizens. It is our government. Call it socialism, if you will. I call it a necessity of civilized society.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  2. #242
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by prairiewind2 View Post
    You will need to pay for Obamacare. It won't be free, though it will probably be subsidized for you.

    And yes. I find $250 to be reasonable. DH and I have a $10,000 deductible each and still pay close to $1200 a month. We are in excellent health and have had no major claims in 35-40 years. My wrist/hand was my last claim of any size (a thousand or two, back in the day). So absolutely - I would kill for a policy that cost $250!
    Liz
    See, now, I'm Canadian. And it's comments like these that really puzzle me.
    You would kill for a policy that covers everything for $250 a month.

    Yet the "socialized" healthcare in Canada that 100% of all citizens are qualified for, would never be anywhere near this per month. Usually it's around $40-50 a month, depending which province you live in. In Alberta, the monthly premiums are $0.

    And there is no "deductible".

    And nobody loses their house because they had a car accident and ended up in the ICU for a month or a coma for 6 months. No matter what the cause or reason for the injuries sustained, accident, assault, or otherwise, the insurance remains the same, the premiums remain the same, the care is good quality and the same for everyone, and nobody can be denied insurance. Ever. Even if you got cancer and had to repeatedly fight recurrences for 15 years. You can never, ever be denied insurance, or care, or have increased premiums.

    The other comment made by someone who had 4 bills to pay and it took 2 years to pay it - - this is also something that does not happen in Canada.

    So, I'm just puzzled why health insurance for everyone is such a bad thing.

    All insurance works the same way. You buy life insurance you're buying a GROUP policy. You can afford your particular insurance because there are hundreds, if not thousands of other people buying the same policy. You share the benefits.

    Medical healthcare insurance is the same way. Everyone buys into the same policy, therefore, reducing the monthly premiums to very nominal and everyone receives the same good quality care. And no hospital bills to pay afterwards. No need to sell your house because you need a MRI scan or surgery.

    If you cannot afford the small $50 a month premium, then there are programs that have subsidy, but you have to prove you're entitled and it's a matter of just filling in forms and proving your incomen via your income tax statements. The government has set aside $$ allottments just for these situations. All taxes go into a big pot, so-to-speak, but then is divided out to various things like health care gets a measure, social programs get their measures, etc., etc.

    It all works out in the wash and the taxes to pay for healthcare and social programs are not so enormous so as to be onerous to even low-income citizens.
    http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/

    Practice! Patience! Persistence!


    15 members found this post helpful.

  3. #243
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    Nov. 13, 2007
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    Burbank, California
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    I think my point with the tax rate is...if I'm paying 40% now, and the US wants to shift to a universal health care-type system, that's going to require a tax increase, right? So that would get me pretty close to 50%...

    So just because some individuals aren't paying 50% right now, well, it doesn't mean that some people aren't actually paying that kind of a rate.

    Why don't we just come up with something for the gap where you don't qualify for medicaid/your state's program, but maybe can't get traditional private insurance due to a pre-existing condition or cost?

    I've just been diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis (similar to Crohn's, but slightly less scary. Not by much). When I was buying health insurance, I never ever purchased a policy with a lifetime max...and I'm so happy I made that choice! I do not, however, have brand name drug coverage, and I'm now on a brand name drug with no generic that I have to take indefinitely...and it is $380/month! Eventually the patent will expire and it will go down, but that's a decision I made, I guess.
    "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #244
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    I AM NOT a supporter of it by the way, but as long as they don't force my family off my husbands medical plan that we get through his job, then who am I to say.
    How perfectly Christian of you. So, would you feel differently when your husband loses his job and can not find another one?


    11 members found this post helpful.

  5. #245
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    Lexington, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by gieriscm View Post
    I adjust my withholding so I owe $100 in income taxes.

    I have no insurance so the fine is $700 (single) or $2000 (family). In theory I need to send the IRS a check for $800 or $2100. In practice I send a check for $100 and tell them to pound sand for the rest, and the worst they can do is send me a nasty letter.
    Until they change the law and put more teeth into it. Can I ask why on earth you are proud of having no health insurance?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #246
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    How perfectly Christian of you. So, would you feel differently when your husband loses his job and can not find another one?
    Or even better, when your husband's company goes out of business and there is no COBRA. Or like my husband's ex company that closed down, no insurance and then we found out they were two months delinquent on insurance payments and we had to foot the bill for all medical care for the two months. Thank heaven's I got him on my company's insurance just before the time limit was up to cover pre-existing conditions. Considering the year before he had a quadruple by-pass.

    Crap doesn't always happen to other people. Sometimes it happens to you.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #247
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Size View Post
    I think my point with the tax rate is...if I'm paying 40% now, and the US wants to shift to a universal health care-type system, that's going to require a tax increase, right? So that would get me pretty close to 50%...

    So just because some individuals aren't paying 50% right now, well, it doesn't mean that some people aren't actually paying that kind of a rate.

    Why don't we just come up with something for the gap where you don't qualify for medicaid/your state's program, but maybe can't get traditional private insurance due to a pre-existing condition or cost?

    I've just been diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis (similar to Crohn's, but slightly less scary. Not by much). When I was buying health insurance, I never ever purchased a policy with a lifetime max...and I'm so happy I made that choice! I do not, however, have brand name drug coverage, and I'm now on a brand name drug with no generic that I have to take indefinitely...and it is $380/month! Eventually the patent will expire and it will go down, but that's a decision I made, I guess.
    But only the very rich in Canada are ever paying anywhere near 50% in taxes. The majority of people are somewhere in the 36-40% range.

    What changes is how the government manages their money. The government must be run on a budget. I can only speak for Canada - but here it is a publicly posted budget. Every fiscal year, everyone in the media turns all eyes and attention to Parliament for the reading of the yearly budget. And then it is discussed (almost to ad nauseum). Parliament also discusses this said budget where it is reviewed by all political parties, some changes might be made, tweaks here and there, and must be agreed/ratified and then that's the working budget for the year. From there, the provinces get their pieces of $$ and the various "ministries" get their budgets (health care ministry, defense ministry, blah, blah - different terminology to you folks, I think, but similar ideas).

    Not too much different from a large corporation actually. Except it must be a well-run corporation. If we, The People, don't like how the CEO (Prime Minister, or in your case, the President) is running the corporation, he or she gets fired (election).

    We also demand that the hospitals have a budget and must stick to it. They are watched carefully by the Provinces who oversee these things (in your case, it would be your state). Hospital facility must be operated efficiently without sacrificing quality of care. If care should get sacrificed, there is literally hell to pay - people that "be" get fired, severe penalties, etc.

    I will say when we first switched over to universal socialized care, it wasn't an easy transition. There WERE some bumps along the way. It had to be tweaked, adjusted and worked on. There is a process where things are tried, and then you discover this part doesn't work right and so it gets tweaked, but that part works really well, so you keep that. Etc. That sort of thing. There was a process until the integration of taxes, funding of hospitals, and the insurance was complete. Now, it's pretty much a well-oiled machine, although even today there might be a minor tweak here or there. It works good, but better is always better. So, if and when you do develop a Made-In-USA socialized healthcare system, you can't just expect it to run perfectly from day one. It will take some (read: enormous) work to get it running just right so that it works well for YOUR PEOPLE. It's also going to require that all political parties actually learn how to work together to get things done instead of actively blocking this, that or the other just because someone's in a snit. The job of our political leaders, yours included, is to work together for the betterment of your country as a whole. If it means working on something that maybe the other doesn't particularly like, well instead of snitting about it, offer ideas to make a fair idea a good one, or a good idea a better one, a better idea into an excellent idea that works for ALL Americans.
    http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/

    Practice! Patience! Persistence!


    12 members found this post helpful.

  8. #248
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    Aug. 12, 2010
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    Westford, Massachusetts
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    3,468

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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Until they change the law and put more teeth into it. Can I ask why on earth you are proud of having no health insurance?
    I think gieriscm was just giving an example, not saying that any of this is true in her/his personal situation.



  9. #249
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    Jul. 28, 2006
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    343

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun Size View Post
    I think my point with the tax rate is...if I'm paying 40% now, and the US wants to shift to a universal health care-type system, that's going to require a tax increase, right? So that would get me pretty close to 50%...

    So just because some individuals aren't paying 50% right now, well, it doesn't mean that some people aren't actually paying that kind of a rate.

    Why don't we just come up with something for the gap where you don't qualify for medicaid/your state's program, but maybe can't get traditional private insurance due to a pre-existing condition or cost?

    I've just been diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis (similar to Crohn's, but slightly less scary. Not by much). When I was buying health insurance, I never ever purchased a policy with a lifetime max...and I'm so happy I made that choice! I do not, however, have brand name drug coverage, and I'm now on a brand name drug with no generic that I have to take indefinitely...and it is $380/month! Eventually the patent will expire and it will go down, but that's a decision I made, I guess.
    FS, if you are paying 40% now in taxes (and I'm guessing one of the big reasons is you are in CA - a different state could significantly reduce your state tax portion), how much in addition are you or your dh/so paying for health insurance coverage? What is your deductible?

    Why are you not paying your own coverage now? Because it is covered by your employer? When you factor in your earned wages, how much of that is apportioned to (or decreased by) your employer's cost of required insurance coverage? As a self-entity corporation, and with a dh operating his own business with 3 employees, I don't want to cover health insurance premiums for myself, my dh, or his 3 employees. And as an employer, I don't know why I would.

    However, as a taxpayer, where each and every one of us are paying proportionate to our incomes, I fully support free health care. Because we are all helping to pay for the cost.

    I honestly don't understand the Obomacare requirement to purchase mandatory insurance - it seems to defeat the purpose of regulated free health care for all. But I posted this somewhere else - I also don't think that the current Obomacare plan is anything close to his initial plan/desire - state/federal funded basic health care for all citizens.

    And I disagree with Rodawn - although budgets are run and very closely reviewed by all, there are some years when it is impossible to meet the budget demands, and we run a deficit. Oh sure, there is heck to pay for the one in charge who accrued the deficit in that election year, but we aren't running a corporation, we are attempting to run a country - and at certain times, that requires some sacrifice to have health care/education for all.

    I have to admit, this has been a great teaching thread - I'm learning a lot.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #250
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
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    Burbank, California
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    721

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodawn View Post
    But only the very rich in Canada are ever paying anywhere near 50% in taxes. The majority of people are somewhere in the 36-40% range.
    I just looked up what I would theoretically be paying, and depending on where I lived in Canada it would be right around 41%, about the same that I pay now.

    Quote Originally Posted by rodawn View Post
    What changes is how the government manages their money. The government must be run on a budget. I can only speak for Canada - but here it is a publicly posted budget. Every fiscal year, everyone in the media turns all eyes and attention to Parliament for the reading of the yearly budget. And then it is discussed (almost to ad nauseum). Parliament also discusses this said budget where it is reviewed by all political parties, some changes might be made, tweaks here and there, and must be agreed/ratified and then that's the working budget for the year. From there, the provinces get their pieces of $$ and the various "ministries" get their budgets (health care ministry, defense ministry, blah, blah - different terminology to you folks, I think, but similar ideas).

    Not too much different from a large corporation actually. Except it must be a well-run corporation. If we, The People, don't like how the CEO (Prime Minister, or in your case, the President) is running the corporation, he or she gets fired (election).

    We also demand that the hospitals have a budget and must stick to it. They are watched carefully by the Provinces who oversee these things (in your case, it would be your state). Hospital facility must be operated efficiently without sacrificing quality of care. If care should get sacrificed, there is literally hell to pay - people that "be" get fired, severe penalties, etc.

    I will say when we first switched over to universal socialized care, it wasn't an easy transition. There WERE some bumps along the way. It had to be tweaked, adjusted and worked on. There is a process where things are tried, and then you discover this part doesn't work right and so it gets tweaked, but that part works really well, so you keep that. Etc. That sort of thing. There was a process until the integration of taxes, funding of hospitals, and the insurance was complete. Now, it's pretty much a well-oiled machine, although even today there might be a minor tweak here or there. It works good, but better is always better. So, if and when you do develop a Made-In-USA socialized healthcare system, you can't just expect it to run perfectly from day one. It will take some (read: enormous) work to get it running just right so that it works well for YOUR PEOPLE. It's also going to require that all political parties actually learn how to work together to get things done instead of actively blocking this, that or the other just because someone's in a snit. The job of our political leaders, yours included, is to work together for the betterment of your country as a whole. If it means working on something that maybe the other doesn't particularly like, well instead of snitting about it, offer ideas to make a fair idea a good one, or a good idea a better one, a better idea into an excellent idea that works for ALL Americans.
    That would be wonderful. Let's do it? This is actually almost my entire political philosophy. We can't all have exactly what we want, so let's work together logically and use the data that we have to come up with the best solution. I am also actually getting involved with politics. Currently I'm part of my city's leadership program, and I hope to run for City Council eventually...and then, who knows?
    "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)



  11. #251
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    Feb. 4, 2006
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    2,954

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    Quote Originally Posted by rothmpp View Post
    I have actually waded through most of the posts.

    OP - I think you have two different issues here, and you have muddled them into one giant tirade.

    First, your main complaint in this situation is with how providers accept payment/insurance. That has nothing to do with Obamacare. You have been very clear that you expect that the other person's insurance is going to cover the expenses related to your injury. Here is the thing - those providers have no way to know that once it is all said and done that the other party's insurance will actually cover those costs.

    The other side of your complaint is that you cannot afford even a catastropic policy. Based on what you have told us about your finances, you probably can't afford it. But what you are refusing to see is that you chose a job that a) did not provide insurance and b) did not pay enough for you to get policy on your own. That was a *choice* that *you* made, apparently years ago. Several posters have pointed out that you could have made different choices. You said that in the month prior to your latest accident you had applied to big box places, but had not gotten an interview. That is all well and good, but how about the last 7 years?

    I'm not going to preach about luxuries. You, and only you, know what you can and can't live without. All I will say is that I was put out on my own at 18. Two full time jobs and full time classes left little time for sleep, and no time for fun. But I was determined to *not* depend on anyone ever again. It is all about priorities.

    And FWIW, you really cannot determine where your wrist would be even if you had surgery that day. Maybe no better than where you are now. And just because your fingers are stiff now, once you get back to using the hand more, you might be surprised how quickly it comes back.
    I very much understand that the providers have no way to know when they would get paid. I've said repeatedly that I know they can't necessarily foot the bill for all those things, and someone must pay for the titanium plate that's in there, the nurses, the office staff, the drugs to put me under, the anesthesiologists, etc. These people all deserve to be paid fairly for their time.

    I did not make a choice to not be covered. I made minimum wage the first year out of high school, and there was no policy I could have afforded then (I also didn't have a car, and had to save up to get one, so was limited in what jobs I could get, no matter how hard of a worker I was). Then I got a slightly better job, that paid more, promised me insurance as a benefit, and moved me out of state. That job, even after two years never provided insurance (and screwed me on a number of other things. This was an extremely physical job working around 50 hours a week, and expected to be on call/ on farm for much of the rest of it.). That got me looking for another job, which paid me more. I got it and had until October, worked for that family for three years, managing their farm. I had insurance for the majority of the time I was employed there, because I was covered under my mom's plan (she had a great job with killer benefits at the time). I also ended up caring for my boss who was in stage 4 breast cancer for the last year or so I was there, in addition to all of my horse related duties, until she died the last week of July. Again, this was a job with 50+ hour weeks, and some expectation of being on call. I would have loved to ask for a raise, but doing that seemed highly inappropriate to me. I could have left, I suppose, but quite frankly, I felt like I owed it to her to take care of her because her husband refused, and I loved her as a person. So yeah, I guess that was a "choice".......I'm sorry that being physically and emotionally drained at my full time job left me unable to do another. Another stupid "choice" on my part.


    Most of the big corps do their level best to not give minimum number of hours/put you on the schedule enough to give part time employees benefits anyway, including Starbucks, though perhaps that varies based on location/supervisor.

    Oh, I wasn't attributing my stiffness and lack of flexibility to the length of time it took to get fixed. Purely a statement of fact. I have no way to know.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #252
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    True, sometimes there is a deficit. Every country in the world is running a deficit because every country has loans made to other countries - the USA owes money to Canada, Canada owes money to the USA, and etc. But there is still a budget requirement. The country would collapse if there wasn't a majority adherence to the budget. A major situation that would cause a deficit would be a catastrophe, such as Hurricane Sandy. An unforseen extra billions of dollars for cleanup, repairs to infrastructure, etc.

    I don't know enough about US political system to say "This and This and That" would work. All we can do is discuss ideas, ask questions, brainstorm for solutions. It is up to each country to make an idea into something that works for their own citizens. Crap, in an ideal world if we all got along, we wouldn't be spending trillions of dollars on various wars and nobody would be starving to death. But within the boundaries of our own respective countries, we can darn well expect our politicians to roll up their sleeves, work together, and make the system work for our people.
    http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/

    Practice! Patience! Persistence!



  13. #253
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    May. 15, 2006
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    Eastern WV Panhandle
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Until they change the law and put more teeth into it. Can I ask why on earth you are proud of having no health insurance?
    I was speaking hypothetically. I have insurance through my employer.

    BTW up to the end of this year my employer offered several plans, including a PPO/POS, HMO, and HDHP. Next year they only offer HDHP - high deductible health plan with the medical savings account. The premiums for the other plans were too high to retain.

    For younger people without chronic health problems it's not a big deal; the older folks or those with a covered family member that has ongoing health issues will be paying thousands more out of pocket each year. As a result we'll probably lose some very talented and experienced employees.



  14. #254
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    Apr. 17, 2006
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    I haven't read all the posts but to the OP - you should receive a payout from the insurance company. I believe my chiro said 3x the cost of medical was the norm. I was rear ended in 2008 I had whiplash but no broken bones. I received a payment for the damages to the car PLUS about 3K. I hope that you heal quickly and get a reasonable payout so that you can take care of your medical bills.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #255
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    Nov. 29, 2006
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    Looks like you got your wish....hallelujah! now I just hope that wrist heals up well!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #256
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Upstate New York
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    Quote Originally Posted by czgm7r View Post
    I haven't read all the posts but to the OP - you should receive a payout from the insurance company. I believe my chiro said 3x the cost of medical was the norm. I was rear ended in 2008 I had whiplash but no broken bones. I received a payment for the damages to the car PLUS about 3K. I hope that you heal quickly and get a reasonable payout so that you can take care of your medical bills.
    Three times the "specials" is the norm - medical bills, lost wages, other relevant expenses. All should be proven as related to the injury. One of the toughest things is getting the medical reports to tie them together. That in itself can really hold up cases.

    And of course, not higher than policy limits. If you have someone carrying a minimum policy, you may be stuck.

    And sometimes adjusted higher or lower depending on the actual meds, and the resulting injury. There are some injuries that are horrendous and permanent, and don't have the bills others do that will result in a recovery. And others where the resulting injury is not that awful, but the bills are sky high. So the 3x scenario doesn't always fit.

    Of course, with an attorney, they will get 1/3 of the settlement plus expenses cut from the settlement - your experts' exams, costs, the attorney's filing costs, photocopying, postage, investigators, etc.

    And finally, it will be apportioned depending on fault. There are often grey areas when one or the other is certain the other is wrong.

    Not said with any opinion on your plight, OP - just clarifying a bit.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  17. #257
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    May. 28, 2012
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    I know its probably an awful thing to say - but every time someone I know here moans about our healthcare system, I just tell them to go and google what its like in the USA. They usually stop moaning pretty smartly. I think from now on I will bookmark this thread and send them the link.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  18. #258
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    Thought I'd update on this thread as I had a couple PMs asking about it. I got my cast off this past monday, and surgery #2 to remove one of the pins (which they let me keep ). I go in tomorrow for my last followup to remove the sutures and get a PT referral, I believe. Still hurts like a mofo and my wrist still doesn't go certain ways. But that damn cast is finally off (I wouldn't recommend having hay inside one as a general rule of thumb ).

    Oh, and I get to start getting said dominant hand back into the swing of things by filling out a giant package of interrogatories from my attorney, lucky me I've got a frankenstein looking 4" scar from surgery #1, which maybe I'll tattoo over one of these days when I have money (and for those of you concerned, yes, I picture myself having health insurance long before this occurs :eyeroll: )

    My boss has been super nice and patient with me which is a real blessing, between all my appointments an hour and a half away and just not being able to do as much as I would normally. So there you have it. Still hope none of you end up in this situation ever, or someone you care about. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  19. #259
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    Alamo, CA USA
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    Rub vitamin E oil on the scar two to three times/day. Get some friction going on it with the oil (which is kind of thick). I've had really good luck with fading and minimizing scars with Vit. E. Buy the capsules and cut the top off one or buy a bottle of Vit E oil to use. I have two or 3 12" long scars on my belly and stomach, so I know from scars....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazednconfused View Post
    Thought I'd update on this thread as I had a couple PMs asking about it. I got my cast off this past monday, and surgery #2 to remove one of the pins (which they let me keep ). I go in tomorrow for my last followup to remove the sutures and get a PT referral, I believe. Still hurts like a mofo and my wrist still doesn't go certain ways. But that damn cast is finally off (I wouldn't recommend having hay inside one as a general rule of thumb ).

    Oh, and I get to start getting said dominant hand back into the swing of things by filling out a giant package of interrogatories from my attorney, lucky me I've got a frankenstein looking 4" scar from surgery #1, which maybe I'll tattoo over one of these days when I have money (and for those of you concerned, yes, I picture myself having health insurance long before this occurs :eyeroll: )

    My boss has been super nice and patient with me which is a real blessing, between all my appointments an hour and a half away and just not being able to do as much as I would normally. So there you have it. Still hope none of you end up in this situation ever, or someone you care about. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
    Georgia Langsam
    Team Gauguin, LLC - www.teamgauguin.com
    Standing Gauguin du Cheval 9054, Prestige II TG, Gauguin's Impression, Gauguin's Brush and Weltfrieden TG



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