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  1. #121
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    Dec. 1, 1999
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    Default a couple of points:

    SS not supposed to be used for id- BWWWWAAAAHHHHHHAAAA
    Ever tried to get a phone, credit card, ANYTHING without a SS? Really?
    point 2: Inadequate time in the morning-Fed law-employers HAVE to give you two hours to vote. Period.
    Last edited by Larksmom; Nov. 6, 2012 at 11:19 AM. Reason: speling.......
    Another killer of threads


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #122
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnalli View Post
    then technically, you dont have to pay for ONE (although keeping up with them can be difficult, if you are like me and slightly paperwork challenged, lol)
    In many cases, it has to be a certified copy of your birth certificate. For an extra fee.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  3. #123
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    Jun. 12, 2009
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    Up north
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    FL refused both my BC and my SS card as well as my utility bills. I must say I received absolutely NO help from all of the vocal anti suppression groups, including the DNC and the LWV.
    I was ID'd and questioned thoroughly at voting....but I
    VOTED!!!!!

    Add to that inadequate early voting time and what's the conclusion?
    incompetence?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2011
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    856

    Default

    Well, it is telling, Larksmom. that you find such humor in my difficulties, and yes, I ended up getting a charge card with my photo (which was questioned at the polls).
    How about people who don't use credit cards?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #125
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    Feb. 22, 2005
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    Where the prairie ends and the mountains begin
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    Default

    I had to show a valid picture ID to vote at the polls today. I'm OK with that stipulation.
    Dreaming in Color


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larksmom View Post
    "Or elderly, with set patterns that don't vary."
    My 102 year old neighbor will be voting. He has long since had a drivers licence. I have lived here over 30 years and never seen him drive, but he has a voter id card, and utility bills, plus I am sure the workers know him because he votes in EVERY election. If an elderly or infirm person doesn't want to 'ask' for someone to help them get an id, how are they going to vote?

    Two anecdotes relevant to this topic: I have a regular at work (bar) who is deep into his 80's. He lives nearby, has worked nearby for most of his life. We all know him by name, sight, where he lives, where he's worked, etc. He doesn't have an ID, doesn't drive. His poling place is within walking distance of home, which I know because I offered to give him a ride if he needed it. He advised me where I could shove my offer of help after telling me where his polling place was. He's not a mean guy, but he is FIERCELY independent and fighting the ever-increasing offers of help as he becomes more infirm like a cornered wet cat. If he had to have ID to vote, there's NO FRIGGIN' WAY he'd ask for help jumping through the hoops to get one. NO WAY. He may have a SS card, maybe, but I know he doesn't have his birth certificate (born in Ireland, came here somewhat unceremoniously). He's moved many times and endured some personal tragedies so I really doubt that his SS card has survived this long; he worked in kitchens and got paid cash, has had the same bank account for over 40 years, his utilities are in a friend's name and he pays his rent in cash. Getting an ID for this man would be nigh impossible, and he's such a grumpy old coot (I adore him ) he's probably just throw up his hands, camp out front of his polling place and loudly explain to everyone why they don't want his vote. %here's one eligible voter lost!

    SO lost his wallet a little over a month ago. He's a genius- not only was his learner's permit in it (his only photo ID), his SS card was as well. We were VERY lucky that you can order a replacement permit online in NY so long as the permit/license is not expired. He does not drive (did not have a need before moving here a year ago) and is very lackadaisical about learning to do so, so if the permit had expired he would have been unlikely to run right out & renew. See, in NY, you have to have a SS card to get a DL- but you have to have a photo ID to get a replacement SS card. What a clusterfu**! There are hoops to jump through to get around that, but they are time consuming & not inexpensive. Had SO had to go to the DMV to renew, he would have had to take time off from work & taken the bus to do so (plausible, certainly, but more time consuming than just hopping in the car) or I would have had to take time off from work as well to drive him (plausible, certainly, but then we're losing 2x the income).

    I have my original birth certificate but four years ago, when I went to get a marriage license, I was told that my original was not good enough (lacked some sort of a seal... it was issued in the same damn county I was trying to get the ML in just 28 years before, but still wasn't "valid"). I had to go to a different office on the other side of the city which was open 3 days a week for limited hours and pay to get a "valid" birth certificate. What a PITA! And if I'd had to take a bus, or take time off of work, or been on a tighter budget....

    It really is not so simple, folks. Voting is absolutely a privilege, but it is a privilege granted to all eligible citizens, not just to those with disposable income, time, vehicle access and the where-withal to fight through governmental office red tape. Think what you will about people who don't have those things, but there is NO reason voting should be nearly impossible for them.
    bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
    free bar.ka and tidy rabbit


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Dec. 1, 1999
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    flyover country
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    Well, it is telling, Larksmom. that you find such humor in my difficulties, and yes, I ended up getting a charge card with my photo (which was questioned at the polls).
    How about people who don't use credit cards?

    I am very sorry HM, I wasn't laughing at your difficulties, just the thought that you can do ANYTHING without a SS#. What is galling is that I know it isn't supposed to be used as id, but everyone everywhere wants it as such.
    And Ruby, I guess I don't worry so much about people who get paid under the table, aka don't pay taxes. When I drove limos after I retired, one of the drivers, who was a retired marine mind you, was getting his retirement, but he somehow had convinced them he was dead?!? He would never vote, and probably had a fake name on his rental agreement. If people want to live under the table, then they shouldn't vote. Too bad so sad for your neighbor. I take it from your post he wasn't voting, but for those who live outside of the system, either get with the program or stay out.
    Last edited by Larksmom; Nov. 6, 2012 at 12:04 PM. Reason: spellling again.......
    Another killer of threads


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #128
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    Jul. 22, 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
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    Default

    Ah. Well, I didn't say he didn't pay taxes, but let's assume for a moment that he had been on payroll in those later kitchen jobs he had, acquired with a handshake and verbal agreement. His income level would likely have put him below the threshold for paying income tax regardless. He paid into SS earlier in his working life but doesn't receive it now despite being eligible. That $$ is going to someone who is "in the system" now, I suppose. So I guess they get to vote. But he doesn't. Hrm.

    Wait! I didn't earn enough last year to pay income tax... do I get to vote?
    bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
    free bar.ka and tidy rabbit


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #129
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    1,033

    Default

    For all of the reasons everyone stated. Why is no one up in arms when one needs an id to cash a check, drive a car, visit the doctor, get a library card??

    But, people will pull out these situations where a person CAN'T POSSIBLY get an id to vote, so therefore, they shouldn't have to get one.

    Ok, then that person doesn't get to drive, cash any chesk, get a job, library card, etc., etc.
    I get it that for some people it is extermely difficult, then ok, we should have a structure in place to help(except maybe the guy mentioned above- he should just get to vote because)them get an id.

    But no one is trying to suppress the vote. I went to vote and they asked for id. There were plenty of Amish there, and they had id's not photo, though.

    And why? To avoid situations like the guy who was bragging al over facebook that he has voted 4 times already, and will vote again today. Or all of those dead people who vote.

    And for those who say, there's no proof of voter fraud -

    For those trying to defend America’s electoral integrity, the stakes are high. The relative rarity of voter fraud prosecutions for impersonation fraud, as the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals pointed out in the Indiana case, can be “explained by the endemic underenforcement” of voter fraud cases and “the extreme difficulty of apprehending a voter impersonator” without the tools—a voter ID—needed to detect such fraud.[5] This nation should not tolerate even one election being stolen, but without the tools to detect these illegal schemes, it is hard to know just how many close elections are being affected.

    In 1984, a dramatic example of such fraud was revealed by a New York State grand jury.[6] The grand jury detailed a widespread conspiracy that operated without detection for 14 years in Brooklyn. This conspiracy involved not only impersonation of legitimate voters at the polls, but also voting under fictitious names. As a result, thousands of fraudulent votes were cast in state and congressional elections.

    One of the witnesses before the grand jury described how he led a crew of eight individuals from polling place to polling place to vote. Each member of his crew voted in excess of 20 times, and there were approximately 20 other such crews operating during that election.[7]

    This extensive impersonation fraud and voting under bogus voter registrations could have been stopped and detected if New York had required voters to authenticate their identity at the polls.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2000
    Location
    NE TN, USA
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    6,201

    Default

    It's just a ruse to create the illusion that some "under-privileged" voters are being discriminated against, same as the requests for UN observers.

    Around here, prospective voters have had ample time to get photo ID cards.

    Photo-ID machines are not that expensive and should be in place in each registrar's office. It's good insurance against voter fraud.

    You can bet those "impartial observers" wouldn't be allowed within miles of these sites.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Dec. 6, 2003
    Location
    Horse Country, USA
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    Default

    Even if I didn't vote, write checks, buy alcohol, or drive a car, I would carry identification for its most basic purpose: to identify me should I somehow become unable to identify myself.

    I don't go through each day expecting to be maimed, become unconscious, or suddenly die, but should any of these happen while I'm somewhere in public on my own, I sure would like someone to be able to quickly find out who I am. It's no skin off my teeth to carry an ID card and could save me a world of trouble one day. That alone makes having an ID worth it even if I don't use it every day.
    <><


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #132
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    Jun. 12, 2009
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    Up north
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    Default

    [QUOTE=redalter;6653601]For all of the reasons everyone stated. Why is no one up in arms when one needs an id to cash a check, drive a car, visit the doctor, get a library card??

    But, people will pull out these situations where a person CAN'T POSSIBLY get an id to vote, so therefore, they shouldn't have to get one.

    Ok, then that person doesn't get to drive, cash any chesk, get a job, library card, etc., etc.
    I get it that for some people it is extermely difficult, then ok, we should have a structure in place to help(except maybe the guy mentioned above- he should just get to vote because)them get an id.

    Needing a photo ID is a fairly recent requirement. Yrs ago, a photo Id wasn't needed to do any of the things listed above. If you lived in a town for 30, 40 yrs all of those practical activites of daily living were dealt with before the recent requirement of a photo ID. If you got a library card, established a bank acct, etc no photo Id was necessary. A BC was required for a DL but that was to prove age not citizenship. If you don't fly then a passport or photo ID isn't necessary. You don't have to provide your BC every time you renew your DL.
    An ss card was necessary to get ajob and pay your taxes but it isn't a photo ID.
    That's why the voting requirement for a photo ID falls heavily on the elderly.
    There are many small towns around this country where Id's aren't necessary. Everyone knows everyone else. The whole country is not one big city in which no one knows their neighbor and doesn't give a da.. anyway.



  13. #133
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    Nov. 13, 2011
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    1,097

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    For all of the reasons everyone stated. Why is no one up in arms when one needs an id to cash a check, drive a car, visit the doctor, get a library card??
    [/B]
    Because it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to charge people a fee to vote, and having an ID costs money. Pay attention.
    "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #134
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    Default Oh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkerbruin View Post
    Because it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to charge people a fee to vote, and having an ID costs money. Pay attention.
    Ok, calm down.

    So give people a voter id for free. K'?
    Really - just a discussion. People, last I checked we are still allowed to have different opinions. No need to shout. Or make snarky comments.

    I do pay attention, but thanks so much for the pointer!
    Last edited by redalter; Nov. 6, 2012 at 01:08 PM. Reason: spelling


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #135
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Default

    Well, I voted and I was asked for a driver's license. I told the poll worker that a license wasn't required to vote in Kentucky and she told me I could file a provisional ballot. I informed them that Kentucky law allowed me to use a credit card or social security card as ID and they backed down. But said it was no big deal.

    Interestingly, I was asked for a photo ID during the last presidential election in 2008, but not in 2010.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #136
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    But no one is trying to suppress the vote. [/B]
    You cannot be that naive.

    You don't think anyone's trying to suppress the vote, even after this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

    Or this:

    http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2...7ZJ/story.html

    (I realize the second example involves early voting and not voter IDs, but it's relevant to the argument that no one is trying to suppress voting.)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #137
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    Mar. 24, 2004
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    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    Ok, calm down.

    So give people a voter id for free. K'?
    Really - just a discussion. People, last I checked we are still allowed to have different opinions. No need to shout. Or make snarky comments.

    I do pay attention, but thanks so much for the pointer!

    But apparently you don't pay attention since it has already been gone over in this thread that the voter ID itself may be free but obtaining a copy of the underlying documents to obtain the voter ID is not free.

    My grandmother's driver's license has expired. She has an original birth certificate but would need to order a new copy with a raised seal. That costs money.
    She would need to track down both of her marriage certificates. She has moved multiple times in the last 10 years and is suffering some memory issues as she is 90 years old. If she has to get replacements that will cost money. ERGO, just because the voter ID does not directly have a fee does not mean that it is free to get it.

    Yes she has a checking account with a check cashing card from ACME (supermarket) and one from her bank, neither has a photo. She opened that checking account when she had a valid driver's license probably 20 plus years ago. So no she does not need a valid gov't photo ID to cash checks. She needs no ID for my uncle to deposit her signed SS checks. She doesn't drive, she is too frail to fly, hasn't been carded for alcohol for a few decades and hasn't smoked for 60 years. Her doctor's office accepts the copy of the expired Driver's license since they know who she is.

    Friend is a member of a church in Montgomery County, PA. He took an elderly church member to the Norristown DMV to get his photo ID. It took 5 hours round trip. There is no public transportation to get him there. Yes, he got it done but it was incredibly difficult for him time wise and physically.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #138
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor1 View Post
    You cannot be that naive.

    You don't think anyone's trying to suppress the vote, even after this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

    Or this:

    http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2...7ZJ/story.html

    (I realize the second example involves early voting and not voter IDs, but it's relevant to the argument that no one is trying to suppress voting.)
    Or this


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...y-voting-site/


    and, no I'm "not that naive" are you?

    Wow, can one not express an opinion without snarky responses?
    Guess not.

    LauraKy, same thing happened out our way.



  19. #139
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    and, no I'm "not that naive" are you?
    (1) Uh, I'm not the one who explicitly stated that "no one is trying to suppress the vote."

    (2) With regard to your link, I did not argue that ONLY one side was trying to suppress the vote, but come on. The effort to "suppress voter fraud" (ha!) was a conservative/Republican one. With that said, I will happily acknowledge that the Democratic response to that effort was at least as much about making sure THEIR guy got elected as it was about some patriotic selfless campaign to uphold citizens' rights. I'm not that naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by redalter View Post
    Wow, can one not express an opinion without snarky responses?
    Guess not.
    Are you NEW??


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #140
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    Dec. 11, 2006
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    Cheesehead in Loudoun Co, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnalli View Post
    Those are documents that you have to have anyway, so it really is not relevant. A birth certificate, a social security card..yep, the first ones are free.
    It is very relevant.

    It was not free to change my name on my social security card or on my driver's license at either marriage or divorce. I cannot demand a free photo ID if I have a valid driver's license.

    It is not free to replace documents lost, stolen or destroyed, nor is it free to have them processed and shipped in an expedited manner.

    My son did not get a birth certificate at birth as his biological father was contesting paternity. I used his baptismal certificate until the state records went online.

    My coworker's mother carried her original BC until she was told that it was no longer valid since it was missing the seal that didn't exist when she was born. It wasn't free to get that replaced.

    Requiring payment for supporting documents for a "free" ID doesn't make that ID "free."
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.


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