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  1. #221
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    Dec. 11, 2002
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    I am not a prude by any means. I am a former Firefighter with very little modesty.
    But in a public setting, I think it's inappropriate for anyone's junk, butt, vayjay, tatas to visible. While I am not modest, I think I should be respectful of others, and cover my private parts when in a public setting. And I do think a locker room, sauna, hot tub is a public setting.
    I think locker rooms/changing rooms should have curtained off showers/changing areas. And that public spas/saunas should require private parts covered.
    Nudity does not bother me. I don't see private parts as taboo, sinful or any of that. But I respect that others feel differently. I don't think my "rights" supersede what is respectful to others.
    I\'m not crazy. I\'m just a little unwell.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #222
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    You're not really being CONFRONTED by a penis. I mean, that just seems kind of excessive. From reading the articles, it sounds like she was using the locker rooms like anyone else uses a locker room. I've never been "confronted" in a locker room by anyone's genitalia.


    Haha, I laughed out loud from this!

    The end result is that the college has an obligation to ensure its students have equal access to the facilities. If the real issue is that they make their facility available to high school and elementary school students also, they have to take second priority to those students who are paying tuition.

    Obviously there could be many reasons for this institution to provide private changing areas for individual students, families with children, etc. But in the end, it IS possible that our kids WILL encounter a transgendered adult (fully clothed or not) in their future. I hardly think we should prepare them to fight off the Jerry Sanduskys of the world, but instead should just let them know that....guess what....there are transgendered people out there. And most likely, the only thing they want is to be left alone (not to seduce you, and not to shock you by showing off their "dongs").

    I really have only met one transgendered person (that I know of). And she did make me feel uncomfortable. I was working in the career planning office of a small business school and she came to me for resume help. She was SO NERVOUS that it was almost unbearable to be in the same room with her. I cannot imagine how difficult it is to live that life - and always wonder who is going to attack them or belittle them. I tried my best to just put her at ease and treat her just like any other student.

    It's interesting, really, that my one brief meeting with her really changed how I think about people in general....it was really sad. I sometimes wonder where she ended up, because I know it must not have been easy for her.



  3. #223
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
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    1,218

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    Quote Originally Posted by spacytracy View Post

    I have no problem if the person wants to use the same facility, I have a problem with a naked man in a ladies area.

    ...

    But I just would not feel comfortable with my young daughter being in the room with a stranger of the opposite sex.
    Well, which is it? You have no problem with Colleen using the women's room, but you don't want your daughter around? Then I suppose the onus is on you to never let your daughter go into an adult locker or changing room.

    To be honest, I'm surprised that your daughter is 13. I expected her to be younger. So, no, she has no business going into a men's room... but I don't think she would need to be supervised to go into a women's room to change when there might be a pre-op transgender woman present. She doesn't need to look at the woman or her genitals, she can just go in and get changed and come back out.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
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    Virginia
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    If the issue is that the minor doesn't have to be naked (people citing the example that there are usually changing areas or curtains) then I would expect a transgendered person to use those same areas. Private areas.
    The point was actually that no one "has" to be naked, so no one is "forced" to be naked in front of anyone else.

    However, there are designated areas where nudity is generally acceptable, such as a changing room. Therefore, if nudity makes you deeply uncomfortable - yours or someone else's - then it would make sense to avoid the place where you know that there will be naked people.

    But leave "force" out of it. No one is forcing kids to strip down.
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Jul. 24, 2008
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    2,904

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    My sole objection is that a man, and Colleen is still a man no matter how PC he wants us all to be, does not share a locker room with minor children. Period.


    Keeping minors away from grown men showing their dongs while children are changing, or forcing young girls to get naked in front of a grown man is simply wrong.
    Just curious, after the operation is complete, does this person then cease to be such a threat, in your mind? And does this person cease to be a man, in your mind, only after the operation?

    Like the day before the operation and the day after the operation it's a completely different person to you?

    How do you feel about young girls getting naked in front of known lesbians in a locker room?
    Jigga:
    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**



  6. #226
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    Sep. 5, 2007
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    891

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    At our YMCA, there is a "family changing room" that has separate, enclosed areas for families to change in. In fact, it is a rule at this gym that children over the age of 3 of the opposite sex are not allowed in the regular dressing rooms. It wasn't just for families, people who were not comfortable for whatever reason using male and female locker rooms used the family changing room as well.

    I would not care for myself if there was a transgendered person in the locker room, but I would not be comfortable with my girls there in that situation. I don't really talk to them about gays or transgendered or anything, but I do teach them tolerance and that people are different and that's ok. FWIW they come into contact with gays and lesbians and even some transgendered people frequently. To them, they are just people, and I'm ok with that. When they are older, yes I will talk to them about those things but it's not the time for that for my girls.

    ETA: Also I shouldn't be using the term "gender" as has been pointed out, gender is a cultural construct and is hard to define because there are so many different ways a person can define themselves. Even the term "sex" can be misleading, as there are people who have multiple versions and XY and XX are not the only two combinations out there- there are quite a few genetic combinations and issues that could arise. [/anth/genetic geekiness] (It autocorrected to meekness lol)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by saultgirl View Post
    ?

    How do you feel about young girls getting naked in front of known lesbians in a locker room?
    That's what I'm curious about as well. Because the TG person, most likely has no interest in girls. A known lesbian in a girls locker room, would be attracted to female bodies. So is it ok for your daughter to be in a locker room, changing area around them? Are penii the only stranger danger, or does a woman who likes other women's bodies also on the list of "shouldn't be allowed in there"? Should gay men be allowed to use public locker rooms/showers if your son is in there?



  8. #228
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    Dec. 4, 2005
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    washington state
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    For me I have no issue with lesbians. I do have an issue with having nude male parts in the locker room. I prefer not to be around someones penis and I definitely want parents to decide what their children can see.

    I think you are trying to get a rise out of someone or pick a fight using lesbianism as a decoy. As someone who lived for years with a lesbian roommate, I can assure you that just being a lesbian does not make you want to make a pass at every female within sight.


    The issue is the penis.
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  9. #229
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    Mar. 3, 2010
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    1,417

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    Well, no more locker rooms for me! That is the end of that!

    And I fear I have no idea what bedazzling is. I am a country girl!
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ― Albert Einstein



  10. #230
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    Jan. 23, 2000
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    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotrudoc View Post
    I think you are trying to get a rise out of someone or pick a fight using lesbianism as a decoy. As someone who lived for years with a lesbian roommate, I can assure you that just being a lesbian does not make you want to make a pass at every female within sight.


    The issue is the penis.
    So, having a penis makes you make a pass at everything in sight, children included?
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    You're not really being CONFRONTED by a penis. I mean, that just seems kind of excessive. From reading the articles, it sounds like she was using the locker rooms like anyone else uses a locker room. I've never been "confronted" in a locker room by anyone's genitalia.

    The articles only said that she was USING the sauna, not that she was fully naked in the sauna.
    Ha, ha, ha- horrible visual that created, sorry. Something happened in the locker room to make the high school girls aware that Colleen was built like a man.

    We see reality differently. Colleen was born with a penis and scrotum Males are born with a penis and scrotum. Colleen does not have a womb or ovaries. Females are born with a womb and ovaries. So for all the surgeries Colleen chooses to endure, she will always be a surgically altered male but because we are a decent and good society we honor her wish to be viewed as a female and treat her accordingly. Once the surgery is complete then she would be welcome in the female dressing room.

    I really do wish Colleen the best in what life can offer her with her new gender identity. My reality stays the same- men do not belong in women's locker rooms at any time and most especially when minor females are present.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #232
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2010
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
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    634

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    Quote Originally Posted by twotrudoc View Post
    I think you are trying to get a rise out of someone or pick a fight using lesbianism as a decoy. As someone who lived for years with a lesbian roommate, I can assure you that just being a lesbian does not make you want to make a pass at every female within sight.
    ....but obviously a man is pretending to be transgender so he can make a pass at children in the locker room?
    Proud member of the COTH Junior (and Junior-at-Heart!) clique!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #233
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotrudoc View Post
    For me I have no issue with lesbians. I do have an issue with having nude male parts in the locker room. I prefer not to be around someones penis and I definitely want parents to decide what their children can see.

    As someone who lived for years with a lesbian roommate, I can assure you that just being a lesbian does not make you want to make a pass at every female within sight.

    THIS IS A-RESPONSE FROM JETSMOM (IN SPITE OF BEING IN THE BODY OF THE QUOTED TEXT)- Twotrudoc thinks owning a penis, regardless of whether it is a TG owner, makes one dangerous. So the Bolded statement below is NOT twotrudoc's.
    Nor does owning a penis. Especially attached to a TG person.


    The issue is the penis.
    Most penises are quite benevolent. I've never been attacked by one attached to a stranger, and your chance of being attacked by one on a TG person is slim to nil. Next time you see one, yell at it" BAD PENIS! Go AWAY!" and watch it shrivel and try to hide. It's not likely to attack even when threatened.
    Last edited by jetsmom; Nov. 3, 2012 at 10:34 PM.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #234
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Most penises are quite benevolent. I've never been attacked by one attached to a stranger, and your chance of being attacked by one on a TG person is slim to nil. Next time you see one, yell at it" BAD PENIS! Go AWAY!" and watch it shrivel and try to hide. It's not likely to attack even when threatened.
    LOL. This is now starting to remind me of the famous "Canoe" thread.



  15. #235
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    Jan. 23, 2000
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    Virginia
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    Okay. I fell over laughing.
    ---
    They're small hearts.



  16. #236
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    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLW View Post
    We see reality differently. Colleen was born with a penis and scrotum Males are born with a penis and scrotum. Colleen does not have a womb or ovaries. Females are born with a womb and ovaries. So for all the surgeries Colleen chooses to endure, she will always be a surgically altered male but because we are a decent and good society we honor her wish to be viewed as a female and treat her accordingly. Once the surgery is complete then she would be welcome in the female dressing room.
    Wow. Just amazed. I wonder how you feel about women who have had a hysterectomy. Are they still female, without their womb & ovaries?

    So....somehow she will be a different person once a bit of flesh is surgically removed? Because hormonally, today, she is NOT male. Or....the only thing you are concerned with - is not her mind/hormones/personality/soul, but her penis? Really?

    A transgendered person who is legally "female" is female. Surgery or not. People don't make these decisions without a lot thought...and if I'm correct, the legal decision isn't made without a psychiatrist involved. This is not a guy who is hoping to cop a feel in the locker room.

    I realize not everyone feels the same way. I should be grateful that the COTH mentality is not the same as the people who commented on the original news story - those people were really scary!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  17. #237
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    Dec. 4, 2005
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    washington state
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    So, having a penis makes you make a pass at everything in sight, children included?

    You can say or think whatever you like but don't try and infer or add to my words. It shows lack of wisdom and desperation to try and make a point.

    I do not wish to share a locker room with people who have male genitalia. While you may have your own opinion, that is mine and it is hardly a rare opinion. There is an ongoing issue with male reporters in professional women's teams locker rooms and female reporters in professional men's teams locker rooms.
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  18. #238
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    Dec. 4, 2005
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    washington state
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    It's not very nice to change what people wrote and try to pass it off as their own. But, I, jetsmom, should know this and am perhaps trying to intentionally be an ass.

    Get it? Please do not add your own words to mine in quote again.
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  19. #239
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotrudoc View Post
    Get it? Please do not add your own words to mine in quote again.
    Where did I try to change what you wrote? My response was in BOLD along with below the quote...Using bold print in a response within a quote is pretty accepted use, and most posters understand that.
    I'm pretty sure that most readers know that you wouldn't have written an intelligent, unbigoted thought like that.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #240
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    Wow. Just amazed. I wonder how you feel about women who have had a hysterectomy. Are they still female, without their womb & ovaries?

    So....somehow she will be a different person once a bit of flesh is surgically removed? Because hormonally, today, she is NOT male. Or....the only thing you are concerned with - is not her mind/hormones/personality/soul, but her penis? Really?

    A transgendered person who is legally "female" is female. Surgery or not. People don't make these decisions without a lot thought...and if I'm correct, the legal decision isn't made without a psychiatrist involved. This is not a guy who is hoping to cop a feel in the locker room.

    I realize not everyone feels the same way. I should be grateful that the COTH mentality is not the same as the people who commented on the original news story - those people were really scary!
    Oh Jesus Christ. I started to put in a surgery disclaimer for females then decided that was silly. <head desk> Saying "they were born with" covered the meaning....and then there is the odd poor female who is mostly female but born without a part. Sigh.

    It's up to the citizens to decide what reality and their society will be. We have social norms and laws. Ours laws support gender reassignment which is not the case in many other societies and cultures like many Arab countries and Africa.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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