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  1. #121
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    It might violate a number of laws if male organs are exposed in a "female only" environment.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    I'm curious and uneducated about the niceties of sexual differences. What's the difference between homosexual tranvestites, male and female, who effect mannerisms of the other sex and a transgender person? Is it what they have decided about their own sexual assignment?

    To me gender means nothing except for the existence of sexual organs of one sex or the other. Dress as you like, behave as you like, have sex with people who have your own sexual organs or with people you don't, doesn't matter. Where is the scientific evidence to show that sex assignment is innate? What organs or hormones that come from the chromosomes don't function as they would in a heterosexual with the same sex organs. Show me the studies that find measurable differences. I CAN be persuaded by scientific evidence, not psychological.

    Educate me with proven facts.
    A gay man that is a transvestite is a male who knows he is a male and identifies with men, who is attracted to men. When he looks down and sees his genitals, they "fit" who he sees in his mind. Being referred to as a man, and accepted as a man, is what he wants/accepts. A man may dress as a woman and still be straight. That is a crossdresser. Most of the time it is done because it is freeing to become someone else for a little while, someone who doesn't have the epectations of that gender put upon them. Some men enjoy the illicitnous of it, or with men who do it during sex with their partners, they enjoy the silky feel of women's clothes. But it usually is about shedding your identity for w while. Most male crossdressers are straight.
    Transvestites are normally gay men, that enjoy dressing as women. Some straight men will dress as women for "drag clubs", and are often referred to as transvestites, when they are actually crossdressing.

    A Transgender person is one who feels like they were born the wrong physical sex. They truly feel like the genitalia they see when they look down, is wrong. They hate when people refer to them by the sex that is physically there because it isn't who they see themself as. Many realize at a young age they aren't like other kids, and find that they are uncomfortable in their body, and align themself with the other gender. It really has nothing to do with sex or sexual attraction. There can be trangender people who in their bodies that they have from birth are attracted to the opposite sex, yet when they get a sex change, are now gay because of that. (ie, a man that feels he is a woman, is attracted to women. Gets a sex change and now is considered gay, because she is still attracted to women. Or a man feels he is a woman, and is attracted to men. Yet he isn;t gay, in his mind, because he really feels that his gender is female. If he gets a sex change, he becomes a woman, who is attracted to men.) There have been men that are TG that have cut off their own genitals, becuase they can't stand having these "alien things" there that don't belong. And women that have cut off their own breasts, because they don't belong to them and who they see themself as.
    Being TG is horrific for most people that are born that way, and has a high incidence of alchoholism and suicide. Being gay nowadays, is pretty much accepted, but even gay people make fun of TG people. I find that horrific.


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  3. #123
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    This instance highlights that this man has the equipment to commit a sexual offense against a young girl. HE doesn't belong in the woman's room, locker, showers etc until he IS a woman.
    persons without penises can and do commit sexual offenses against young girls.
    This isn't about pedophilia, or rape, or even inappropriate sexual conduct, because the transgender person didn't do any of that; all s/he did was wear a penis in the women's locker room.
    I guess the solution is to clarify the signs on the doors: Penis Locker Room and Non Penis Locker Room instead of the more vague men/women.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #124
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Traekener and others not understanding TG people- imagine if you were in an accident, and your genitals and other seconadary sex characteristics were suddenly gone. If you woke up in the hospital room, what gender do you know you are? You KNOW in your mind if you are male or female. It's the same with TG people, but their exterior doesn't match what they are. It has nothing to do with sex or who they are attracted to. It's who they ARE. If a boy is born with undeveloped testes, and a small penis, it can be visually not much different than a girl baby. But when the child reaches about 4 yrs of age, they will identify themself as a male. Dressing them as a girl won't change that. They know what their gender is.

    If, in fact, Colleen was openly naked in the sauna, it would have been appropriate for an adult to ask that they use a towel to show some modesty. I don't want to see exposed genitals laying around in a sauna/locker room for any length of time, and it's just being considerate of others not to just "hang out".


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  5. #125
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    Oct. 3, 2002
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    Boogerville, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside View Post
    Uhm, then just don't stare at it. I can't imagine sweaty post-workout vaginas hanging out in the locker room are really any more appealing, and it's not like she's running up to mushroom print your forehead or anything, right?
    I just blew an eyeball.


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  6. #126
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    Ahhh Nasal, you are one of the reasons I don't eat or drink near a computer!
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ― Albert Einstein


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
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    Jan. 17, 2008
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    Dutchess County, New York
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaintedHunter View Post
    Perhaps the bigger issue is intermingling of adults with children in an un-supervised setting.
    Exactly! I do not want my kids with naked adults, no matter their sexual orientation or identity. I will even assume the adult is harmless. I still do not want my kids with naked adults -- given that in our house we do not all walk around naked, my kids would almost certainly be very uncomfortable.

    As I said before, we talk about gays/gay rights/gay marriage etc etc in a very open and accepting way in our house. This issue really has nothing to do with being gay or transgendered for me.


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  8. #128
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    Nov. 13, 2002
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    Maryland
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    In the communal women's locker room at my boathouse, I am quite sure the high schooler girls would be much less traumatized by seeing a penis than they are by seeing our middle-aged female bodies and knowing this is what time, life and gravity will do to them someday
    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)


    11 members found this post helpful.

  9. #129
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    Oct. 3, 2002
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    Boogerville, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsefaerie View Post
    Ahhh Nasal, you are one of the reasons I don't eat or drink near a computer!
    De nada!



  10. #130
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    Dec. 29, 1999
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    Harrisburg, PA USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    To the posters that have an issue with a TG person using the locker room...so you also feel that gay people should have to use the opposite sex's locker rooms? Because someone that is attracted to the same sex, can freely use the same locker room as your son/daughter. I guarantee you that you've showered/been naked with gay people. And they didn't make a move on you...Imagine that.
    What? That makes no sense. Women use the women's room. Men use the men's room. Gay or straight makes zero difference. Men "living as women" are still men. Women "living as men" are still women. There's been no surgery here, there was zero mention of hormone therapy. According to himself, he was simply a man dressed as a woman. If I dress in man's clothes and insist on using the men's locker room at the gym, you think that would be allowed?

    And the height of idiocy is to put the Team in the Smaller room and leave the large locker room to the solo Mr. Francis. Uh-uh, buddy.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    Well, in response to the coed locker room comment, has anyone ever been to Europe? Things are coed naked all the time over there.

    By way of example: when I was in Europe with my parents one year we went to the Friedrichsbad in Baden-Baden. Basically it is this whole huge building with several different pools and massage tables and saunas and steam baths and you follow along and go from station to station.

    Guess what?
    It's coed naked.
    From age 14 on up.

    (And also completely awesome.)


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  12. #132
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    Nov. 1, 2012
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    Awesome because of the nakedness? Or because of the activities? Sorry, I couldn't help it. lol.



  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    What? That makes no sense. Women use the women's room. Men use the men's room. Gay or straight makes zero difference. Men "living as women" are still men. Women "living as men" are still women. There's been no surgery here, there was zero mention of hormone therapy. According to himself, he was simply a man dressed as a woman. If I dress in man's clothes and insist on using the men's locker room at the gym, you think that would be allowed?

    And the height of idiocy is to put the Team in the Smaller room and leave the large locker room to the solo Mr. Francis. Uh-uh, buddy.
    I get the impression that some people are concerned about a TG person because they think they would molest the children in there. My comment about gays was, to show that you have people in your locker room who ARE attracted to the sex of the naked people in there, whereas a TG person probably isn't. Yet gay people shower/undress around us all of the time in locker/military settings.


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  14. #134
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    Feb. 20, 2010
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    All 'round Canadia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    What? That makes no sense. Women use the women's room. Men use the men's room. Gay or straight makes zero difference. Men "living as women" are still men. Women "living as men" are still women. There's been no surgery here, there was zero mention of hormone therapy.
    Colleen is on hormone therapy, enough to be actually growing some visible breasts. She has not had bottom surgery, and it doesn't seem like top surgery either - the small boobies visible in the video interview would be from the hormone therapy.

    I don't know many men who'd put themselves through boob-growing hormone treatment just to ogle some girls.


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  15. #135
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    Aug. 14, 2010
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    San Francisco, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    You say this. Show me the scientific proof for your statement.

    I happen to believe that MOST sexual orientation is psychological not physical.
    http://genderxy.org/FPress.htf


    ETA: There is homosexuality in dolphins, rams, primates, all KINDS of animals. Do you think these animals are exhibiting homosexual tendencies because it makes them the cool animal on the block? It's biological, it's in their genes. It's WHO THEY ARE. It boggles my mind that people think that some people throw back the covers and say "Hey, I'm going to be gay today and see how many people ridicule me and beat me up!"
    Proud member of the COTH Junior (and Junior-at-Heart!) clique!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #136
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    Dec. 29, 1999
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    Harrisburg, PA USA
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    Coanteen, thanks for the clarification. I couldn't see the video, only the photo in the first link and that had no mention of therapy.

    That still doesn't explain why the swim team was relegated to the smaller locker room.

    I was at a pony club rating once. It was at a really lovely public facility with indoor (separate) restrooms for men & women. I was walking by when a little girl ran past me in the hall and I thought she looked a little odd. As I walked on, a man in his 40s, whom I knew personally and who had come to the rating with the divorced father of one of the girls, came out of the Ladies Room. He went in there "just because." Both rooms had urinals inside. Of course he couldn't know that until he went in. IOW, he was in there when this little girl walked in. She turned right around and ran out. I remonstrated with him, saying, use the Men's Room. Because he was gay he felt it was no problem at all that he'd be peeing in front of little girls. Did I think he would ever hurt a child? No, never. Do I think he's a complete ***hole of a human being? Yes. What he did was wrong.


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  17. #137
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    Alberta's bread basket
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    I have little concerns about transgendered people visiting their new gender's washrooms or locker-room showering facilities.

    I do have concerns about predators who try to PRETEND they're transgendered and enter the bathrooms opportunistically on the prowl for their next prey. Specifically, a male predator, for example, enters the women's washroom pretending to be a transgendered female... or alternatively, a predator specifically looking to prey on a transgendered individual simply because they have a deep rage about this.

    It's a very real issue and in Canada they're discussing this very issue. It seems that what is up on the table now is whether or not to make it the law to require a separate bathrooms for transgendered people in public places and how to keep them safe for the transgendered individuals, whether there be both new male and female washrooms or one-room lockable private washrooms, only because of the worry of predators - NOT calling transgendered people predators, but rather talking about the violent sociopaths who prey on not only women and both sexes of children, but also prey on transgendered individuals too. Safety is a very big and real issue here for all concerned.

    It's a very tough situation. Nobody wants to make life even more difficult for the individual going through the transgender process, but safety is also a priority for these people since they are increasingly a new target.

    Predators are very opportunistic. They take every opportunity available.
    http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/

    Practice! Patience! Persistence!



  18. #138
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    Jan. 5, 2010
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    VA--> Washington (state)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    Colleen is on hormone therapy, enough to be actually growing some visible breasts.

    I don't know many men who'd put themselves through boob-growing hormone treatment just to ogle some girls.
    Aaahhhh....a moment to jump in. Yes, there are men who do that- in prisons & in the same country I share with you- both to ogle AT someone and be ogled back AT. I can speak from examining the GONADS & minds of said patients! There are "conditions" too, as I am sure an educated person like yourself is aware of, that cause genitals and breasts to grow or shrink for that matter, so just because he's got testes and a penis doesn't mean squat and just because she's got breasts and what looks like a vagina, she may not be no woman my dear.

    Sorry- regarding parents not wanting their kids to see naked adults because their kids under 18 y shouldn't be "forced" to be exposed to sex at what 8, 11, 15...IMHO my pediatric patients know very well about sex (because I speak to them as their medical provider about it, age- and development obv considered), genitals, and identity and are much more aware than most parents realize. I also speak to the parents about it, I also speak to my adolescent, adult and geriatric patients about it. I ask them questions, give answers and make sure they aren't hurting anyone, are either having "safe sex with the same sex" (as a queer mom said to me in front of her bidaughter) or having safe sex, period....with any appendage, part, genital, you name it. Your children may be shy, but I see 2yos who can work iPads. What makes you think your child, tween or teen has googled "boobs" or "penis"? Let me tell you, they have, they tell me that b/c I'm nice AND furthermore, i tell them it's normal to want to know about our bodies....just that I old prefer they talk about it with their parents because it's important to be honest and ask questions when we don't know the answers. Because in 2012, it's normal growth and development. Sorry.
    And btw, I'm young (er), didn't stare at nekid people when I showered in a gym locker room and now I see all parts, every where, all day long, all shapes, sizes, colors, and blends. It's a human body. We are human beings who are all created equal as babies-- sadly, that changes as adults when fear, ignorance and other things creep in.
    *off the soap box now
    And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #139
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    Feb. 20, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Coanteen, thanks for the clarification. I couldn't see the video, only the photo in the first link and that had no mention of therapy.

    That still doesn't explain why the swim team was relegated to the smaller locker room.
    Sure it does. The university facility has a non-discrimination policy wrt gender identity. Colleen can't be discriminated against - she is allowed to use the women's facilities, as per the policy.

    If the swim team has an issue with that, then the swim team can bugger off to the smaller change room.
    As a bonus this will also satisfy all those people who say minors shouldn't be "forced" to see any adult genitalia, be they male or female.

    The university should make covering up your crotch or wearing a swimsuit in the sauna mandatory IMO. It's a multi-use university facility, it probably only gets cleaned once daily. That they don't even make sitting on a towel mandatory gives me the heebie jeebies, and it's got nothing to do with penii.


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  20. #140
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    Sep. 26, 2010
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    Exactly! I don't want to sit down on a wooden bench that's likely filled with moisture and has been sat on by tons of nekkid people. That's just unhygenic and gross. Towels are plentiful in gyms and saunas for a reason!!



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