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  1. #81
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    this is only a problem because our society teaches us that being naked is somehow equated with sexual activity.
    Which it isn't. If we just stopped teaching this idea, we wouldn't have any of these bizarre problems.
    If you do feel that naked has something to do with sex, how do you feel about sharing your locker room with a homosexual? I can't say it ever bothered me at all to do that, and there never seemed to be any "sexual tension" or anything going on. People were matter of fact and went about their business.
    You'd think sharing the locker room with a homosexual would be more disturbing to conservative folks than sharing one with a hetersexual woman equipped with a penis, someone who wouldn't be likely to find naked women to be sexually interesting.


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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    Transphobia? What a joke that is, it's like the charge of "homophobia" being tossed around if you don't agree and support their lifestyle.

    Phobia is a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational.. People aren't afraid of homosexuals or transexuals just because they find them perverted or mentally off. Heterosexuals aren't deviant because they don't support homosexual behaviour or see transexuals as a good thing to expose their children to.
    A "lifestyle" choice is being a vegetarian. Being trans/gay/lesbian/queer/asexual/pansexual/etc. is not a "lifestyle"; it's WHO WE ARE as human beings. Are you leading a heterosexual "lifestyle"? No, you're just straight. Imagine if someone said to you that they don't "agree" with your sexuality (you know, you being a man who likes women and all)...how absolutely absurd would that seem to you?

    ...And that's precisely how absurd it feels to those of us who don't fall on the far end of the heterosexual spectrum.

    I can no more change the fact that I have ZERO attraction to a person based on their genitalia than I can change the fact that I'm white and of Italian and Irish decent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    Not quite. The suffix -phobia is used in many situations outside of psych (in chemistry, biology, medicine outside of psych to describe specific aversions that are not fear/mentally based) - or would you say that organic chemists are trying to tell us that molecules suffer from anxiety? And those aren't even modern usage, they're long-established.

    And no, people who don't "support homosexual behavior" aren't deviant. They're just prejudiced.
    This. A million times this. Emphasis mine.
    Nine out of ten times, you'll get it wrong...but it's that tenth time that you get it right that makes all the difference.


    14 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
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    I don't understand why they don't enforce a policy of wearing a towel while in the locker room (obviously not while changing or showering). That way no one would feel uncomfortable and everyone would be treated as equals. Plus, if gender is not dependent on what genitals you might have but rather your emotional/mental/hormonal make up, then why not cover them up? The whole idea of separate locker rooms in the first place is to enforce MODESTY.


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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    Not quite. The suffix -phobia is used in many situations outside of psych (in chemistry, biology, medicine outside of psych to describe specific aversions that are not fear/mentally based) - or would you say that organic chemists are trying to tell us that molecules suffer from anxiety? And those aren't even modern usage, they're long-established.

    And no, people who don't "support homosexual behavior" aren't deviant. They're just prejudiced.
    So not true.


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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by headsupheelsdown View Post
    So not true.
    How?


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  6. #86
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    Depends on what definition of "supporting" the gay lifestyle is used. I am extremely tolerant of all lifestyles, I am not about to go out of my way and march in a gay/alternative lifestyle parade, but I am not prejudiced. If tolerance is included in the whole "supporting the alternative lifestyle" even though you may not feel your child to be emotionally ready (or any minors for that matter) and just want to remove them from exposure until a certain age...then it may be true. What is this broad word "support"? To me, it is much more involved than simply "tolerate/tolerance".


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  7. #87
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    "Homosexual behavior" is different than simply being homosexual. Being homosexual means you are attracted to other people of your own gender. "Homosexual behavior" refers to the self-destructive and dangerous practices of Gay men (otherwise known as The Infamous Homosexual Lifestyle) that are promoted in Gay culture as "an important part of being Gay". Many of those practices and behaviours are inherently self-destructive and lead to problems in the long-run such as HIV infection, jail time for drug possession, or even attempts at suicide by drug overdose, but not all Gay men do those things and fortunately many are beginning to shun those practices, even when they are younger, but it still remains verboten to criticize it or call people out for any of it and if you do, you're hit with the label of Homophobe or whatever. There, I said it! Flame suit on! (no pun intended)
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by headsupheelsdown View Post
    Depends on what definition of "supporting" the gay lifestyle is used. I am extremely tolerant of all lifestyles, I am not about to go out of my way and march in a gay/alternative lifestyle parade, but I am not prejudiced. If tolerance is included in the whole "supporting the alternative lifestyle" even though you may not feel your child to be emotionally ready (or any minors for that matter) and just want to remove them from exposure until a certain age...then it may be true. What is this broad word "support"? To me, it is much more involved than simply "tolerate/tolerance".
    You do not have to march in a parade to support those with different sexual preferences or gender identifications. That notion is just silly.

    In regards to your second comment... I firmly believe that sheltering children or "removing them from exposure" will only contribute to the child having issues with acceptance later in life. You think it's best to shield them from the fact that homosexuality or transgender identification is a fact or life until they're 18, and then hope they'll "support" it? How about showing them from the time that they're a child that it's no big deal? YOU are making it a big deal by "protecting" them from it.


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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    "Homosexual behavior" is different than simply being homosexual. Being homosexual means you are attracted to other people of your own gender. "Homosexual behavior" refers to the self-destructive and dangerous practices of Gay men (otherwise known as The Infamous Homosexual Lifestyle) that are promoted in Gay culture as "an important part of being Gay". Many of those practices and behaviours are inherently self-destructive and lead to problems in the long-run such as HIV infection, jail time for drug possession, or even attempts at suicide by drug overdose, but not all Gay men do those things and fortunately many are beginning to shun those practices, even when they are younger, but it still remains verboten to criticize it or call people out for any of it and if you do, you're hit with the label of Homophobe or whatever. There, I said it! Flame suit on! (no pun intended)
    ...Really?



  10. #90
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    And here I thought "homosexual behavior" meant having sexual relations with a member of the same sex. Silly me.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn’t merely train him to be semi-human. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming part dog."
    -Edward Hoagland


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    "Homosexual behavior" is different than simply being homosexual. Being homosexual means you are attracted to other people of your own gender. "Homosexual behavior" refers to the self-destructive and dangerous practices of Gay men (otherwise known as The Infamous Homosexual Lifestyle) that are promoted in Gay culture as "an important part of being Gay". Many of those practices and behaviours are inherently self-destructive and lead to problems in the long-run such as HIV infection, jail time for drug possession, or even attempts at suicide by drug overdose, but not all Gay men do those things and fortunately many are beginning to shun those practices, even when they are younger, but it still remains verboten to criticize it or call people out for any of it and if you do, you're hit with the label of Homophobe or whatever. There, I said it! Flame suit on! (no pun intended)
    Really? I personally know A LOT of gay men and lesbians, and exactly none have been to jail, have HIV or do drugs. None of those are "homosexual behaviors" at any rate, but human ones. Way more straight people than homosexual ones who have HIV, do drugs and been to jail.

    The "homosexual lifestyle" of the people I know are to do yard work, raise kids, have cookouts and spend time with friends and family.


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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakehner View Post
    Sorry, he is a guy. Give him all the hormones you want, give him fake boobs...until the external plumbing is changed, he is a guy. Doesn't belong around normal women and especially not girls.
    but--what's normal look like?

    normal is a woman with boobs? or without because of a masectomy?
    better to teach kids that the human body comes in a zillion shapes and sizes, and each body has it's own inherent worth imho.


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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by over the moon View Post
    How?
    So I got a thumbs down for asking a poster to explain what they meant.

    Come on people. "How?" is not "Bad".



  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by over the moon View Post
    You do not have to march in a parade to support those with different sexual preferences or gender identifications. That notion is just silly.

    In regards to your second comment... I firmly believe that sheltering children or "removing them from exposure" will only contribute to the child having issues with acceptance later in life. You think it's best to shield them from the fact that homosexuality or transgender identification is a fact or life until they're 18, and then hope they'll "support" it? How about showing them from the time that they're a child that it's no big deal? YOU are making it a big deal by "protecting" them from it.
    No, you don't HIDE these issues from kids and you teach them tolerance in general. But there is nothing wrong with expecting them to not have to deal with some issues until the parents decide they are mature enough to handle it. We have movie ratings, there is a legal drinking age.

    I think by you saying if they are not directly exposed to something they will definitely have ISSUES you are taking a very,very dim view of the foundations that a parent can put on a child that that child can use to extrapolate on later and use to handle many differnt situations later .

    I really don't think that anyone here would want their child not interacting with a transgender neighbor, friend, teacher simply because of being transgender.... I just don't get that vibe from anyone. But I do think that when issues involve nudity and sexual issues, it is up to the child's parents to decide how much and when their kid gets exposed to.
    Last edited by headsupheelsdown; Nov. 2, 2012 at 02:50 PM. Reason: additional thought


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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by headsupheelsdown View Post
    No, you don't HIDE these issues from kids and you teach them tolerance in general. But there is nothing wrong with expecting them to not have to deal with some issues until the parents decide they are mature enough to handle it. We have movie ratings, there is a legal drinking age.

    I think by you saying if they are not directly exposed to something they will definitely have ISSUES you are taking a very,very dim view of the foundations that a parent can put on a child that that child can use to extrapolate on later and use to handle many differnt situations later in life.
    Exactly! I happen to talk to my boys pretty frequently about being gay etc as I think there's a lot of homophobia with teenaged boys. I start early -- my nine year old knows all about gay marriage, for example. However, I do not want that same nine year old next to a naked man or woman in a locker room! There's a world of difference! Not every kid is ready and able to handle difficult issues, whether it is violence in movies for example, or nudity.


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  16. #96
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    You can pin it down to the simple act of two same-sex individuals having sex as the religious fundamentalists do, but that is being grossly unfair to all of those who identify as Homosexual because it condemns any and all who meet that simple criteria instead of those who knowingly and objectively do wrong and harm to themselves and others under the auspices of what they consider to be culturally acceptable behaviour and practices. HIV, Crystal Meth, unprotected sex with anonymous partners in public and private spaces, disdain for monogamy, condoms, and STD testing, and the list goes on. Don't take my word for it, get it straight (again no pun intended) from this Gay and this Gay.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!


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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweiners View Post
    I don't understand this "transphobiea" thing. The bottom line is, while mentally she may be a woman, until she has the surgery, physically he's a man. As such, he has no business running around buck naked in a female locker room, especially when minors are present. It's no big deal to cover up the appropriate areas. I agree with the poster that said this person must have an axe to grind or is just trying to go for shock value.

    As the parent of a teen daughter, I'd be raising all kinds of hell with the school if there was an adult (physical) male running around nude in her locker room. I don't care what gender this person identifies with.
    Well said. Sorry, but this person is still physically a man and should not be in a female locker room. It is not right to discriminate against people, but it also isn't right to expect other people to just deal with it. This is a womens locker room, and this person is still physically a man.


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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    She could have covered herself with a towel in the sauna. That's not too difficult.
    exactly. this isn't really about pre surgical transgender women being allowed to let it all hang out.
    it's about one person who should have been discreet and for whatever reason was not.


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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweiners View Post
    I don't understand this "transphobiea" thing. The bottom line is, while mentally she may be a woman, until she has the surgery, physically he's a man. As such, he has no business running around buck naked in a female locker room, especially when minors are present. It's no big deal to cover up the appropriate areas. I agree with the poster that said this person must have an axe to grind or is just trying to go for shock value.

    As the parent of a teen daughter, I'd be raising all kinds of hell with the school if there was an adult (physical) male running around nude in her locker room. I don't care what gender this person identifies with.
    So what about the man who comes back from Iraq with no male features where his genitals used to be, and pees from a hole due to a road bomb? Do you think he should then go into female locker rooms? Because he doesn't have male organs...

    If people would recognize that gender is about the brain, not the body it would be much easier to accept.

    And to the poster worried that someone might pretend to be female in order to molest a kid in the locker rm...you have far more to worry about with just letting a boy use the boy's locker room. Look at the Penn state scandal. The best thing you can do is talk to your kids early about sex, privacy, and what is not allowable for others to do to them, and give them the tools to repel a pedophile, and feel they can talk to you regardless of the subject.


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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by headsupheelsdown View Post
    No, you don't HIDE these issues from kids and you teach them tolerance in general. But there is nothing wrong with expecting them to not have to deal with some issues until the parents decide they are mature enough to handle it. We have movie ratings, there is a legal drinking age.

    I think by you saying if they are not directly exposed to something they will definitely have ISSUES you are taking a very,very dim view of the foundations that a parent can put on a child that that child can use to extrapolate on later and use to handle many differnt situations later .

    I really don't think that anyone here would want their child not interacting with a transgender neighbor, friend, teacher simply because of being transgender.... I just don't get that vibe from anyone. But I do think that when issues involve nudity and sexual issues, it is up to the child's parents to decide how much and when their kid gets exposed to.
    Regarding your last sentence... In this case, it involved nudity with no sexual issues...Gender issues, but no sexual issues were involved.


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