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  1. #1
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    Default Any parents of kids with conduct disorders?

    We are having a heckova time w/ li'l rivenoak, who is a 7 y.o. 1st grader.

    I'm starting to wonder if he's "explosive" or "O.D.D" or something else beyond just strong-willed and smart.

    Constant write-ups @ school due to behavior. He has a behavior plan, which wasn't being followed, and we have a check-in meeting this Thursday.

    Would love to hear about anyone's experiences. Especially if you sought testing/diagnoses.

    He's already on an IEP due to bilateral hearing loss.
    ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~



  2. #2
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    ODD is Oppositional Defiance Disorder. I believe it can only be diagnosed by a psychologist/psychiatrist. IME, ODD is characterized by constant defiant behavior for no apparent reason. The child is consistently uncooperative and defiant towards authority and rules despite knowing there are consequences and given chances to improve or change their behavior.

    It's great to hear that you are truly concerned about your child's behavior and realize that it's more than just "boys being boys" or whatever garbage many parents use as an excuse. I think it's probably time to speak to the school faculty about your son being assessed by a school psychologist or a private psychologist/psychiatrist (whatever you have access to).

    Due to his hearing loss I would also be curious how his language comprehension is. If he can't understand what teachers are saying that could lead to perceived behavioral issues (not following directions, etc.).


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by alternate_universe View Post
    Due to his hearing loss I would also be curious how his language comprehension is. If he can't understand what teachers are saying that could lead to perceived behavioral issues (not following directions, etc.).
    This was actually a problem with someone I ride with. Riding coach was frustrated that directions were not being followed and spoke with the parents about it, parents revealed that the student had some hearing loss. I don't know why the parents didn't say anything before, but I think the student was too self conscious to say she couldn't hear. While she obviously wasn't getting in trouble for "acting out" it was a frustrating situation for both the student and coach for a while.

    Are all of your child's teachers very aware of the implications of his hearing loss?



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by alternate_universe View Post
    ODD is Oppositional Defiance Disorder. I believe it can only be diagnosed by a psychologist/psychiatrist. IME, ODD is characterized by constant defiant behavior for no apparent reason. The child is consistently uncooperative and defiant towards authority and rules despite knowing there are consequences and given chances to improve or change their behavior.
    <snip>
    Due to his hearing loss I would also be curious how his language comprehension is. If he can't understand what teachers are saying that could lead to perceived behavioral issues (not following directions, etc.).
    That sums him up. Believe you me, he knows how to behave, but can't or won't. He's a handful at home, but is multiples worse at school.

    The hearing loss plays some part. He currently will not wear his hearing aids, so he definitely misses things and then is probably mentally exhausted from trying to hear what he can all day long. If he's in a quiet, one on one situation, his comprehension is good (not without problems, but good). In a mainstream classroom? It's not an ideal situation for him.
    ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by klmck63 View Post
    Are all of your child's teachers very aware of the implications of his hearing loss?
    Well, let's just say that they know he has a loss.

    Hearing loss is low incidence in kids, so the school staff don't have much experience with it. His teacher of the deaf does in-service stuff with them, but they still don't really "get it."

    Much of his education team seems to think that if he would just wear his hearing aids, everything would be fine. Unfortunately, it's not that simple.
    ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~



  6. #6
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    I sought testing for my daughter 3 years ago and I'm glad I did. However, I have not had her tested for ODD. She was tested for ADD and ADHD and barely scored positive for ADHD. IQ was top of the chart. She was off the chart for anxiety and depression (at the time she was only 5 years old!) and medicine was recommended. However, her father claims I made it all up and she is just being a kid and refuses to agree to the medicine. So for the past 3 years I have watched my daughter struggle and not be able to do anything. I can't afford to fight for full custody and as much as I hate to say this, I'm waiting on the school to force the issue. Or for her to get old enough to say she doesn't want to go to his house. The living environment over there is not the best of things, but DSS can't do anything because the needs of my daughter are meet (barely). So I know what you are going through and it's a rough road. My daughter sees a therapist once a week (through the school system). And haves her horse therapy at least 2x a month, her father has just recently started allowing her to go ride occasionally while with him.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivenoak View Post
    Well, let's just say that they know he has a loss.

    Hearing loss is low incidence in kids, so the school staff don't have much experience with it. His teacher of the deaf does in-service stuff with them, but they still don't really "get it."

    Much of his education team seems to think that if he would just wear his hearing aids, everything would be fine. Unfortunately, it's not that simple.
    If there is any way to get him in tutoring with someone who specializes with problem children, it may help to some extent. I was a child who suffered hearing loss as a result of a major surgery, and I went through a period of hearing everything underwater as I adjusted to gradually losing hearing in my left ear. I was either raging because everyone treated me like an idiot or raging because no matter how hard I tried to hear something, I couldn't. Hearing aids weren't even an option on the table at the time. My mom ended up paying an OT to tutor me after school. The OT was in touch with all my teachers about what was covered that day, and it was a lot better--I mean light-years--to be in a quiet room with one other person and review what had been said that I couldn't hear that day. It did not totally eliminate my outbursts (part of that was puberty), but I did gain more confidence that I was smart, and that in turn lessened my anger towards the world and my teachers. You know it's hard when you need things repeated two or three times, and with my teachers, some of them truly just thought I was an inattentive, not-good-student, and that was far from the truth. But when you are treated like that, eventually you fulfill those people's expectations.

    I'm sorry he doesn't like wearing his hearing aids--I finally was lucky enough to get one this past year, and it has been incredible. Truly I had no idea what I'd been missing over the last decade. Is he embarrassed by them? Or does the sound irritate his ears at all?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    I have always been a resistant child. It's kind of a compulsive thing. When I was tested for ADHD two years ago, the test also indicated mild ODD, depression, and anxiety (in addition to ADHD that was at the absolute maximum level of severity the test could give results for, or something like that).

    Honestly, I feel like the ADHD caused a LOT of the resistance/defiant type behaviors when I was younger. I couldn't focus super long (still can't), so I'd wander off and do something impulsive (that I had normally been told not to do), then I would be grounded or whatever for being distracted and disobedient, then I'd get mad because I tried to stay focused but couldn't, and it was just an unfortunate cycle. I've gotten much better about it as I've gotten older, and my parents understand my ADHD a little more now so they know the difference between what's me being obnoxious and what's me genuinely struggling. Or what's me being obnoxious because I'm struggling but refuse to ask them for help.

    I would explore ADHD testing and some form of counseling for him, as well as discussing ways of handling his behavior with a counselor who has experience in this area.

    Best of luck to you and jingles for you and the youngster!
    I've heard there's more to life than an FEI tent and hotel rooms, so I'm trying it.



  9. #9
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    Aaaaaggghhh!!!! Poor little guy! i'm sure he is very frustrated.
    First of all, I can understand him not wanting to wear his hearing aids. Is his loss conductive or sensori-neural? How much of a loss is it and how much do the aids help?
    If he does not want to wear his aids he is missing a LOT. No wonder he is acting out. Have you thought about teaching or having him taught sign language/ASL? I'm just tossing out suggestions here-- my background/education is working with visually and hearing impaired people.
    Have you looked into any deaf/ hard of hearing parent support groups?
    PM me if you want.
    Carol



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivenoak View Post
    Much of his education team seems to think that if he would just wear his hearing aids, everything would be fine. Unfortunately, it's not that simple.
    why doesn't he wear his hearing aids?

    you mentioned above that the general ed classroom doesn't seem right for him. why is he not in a class or school for children with his needs?
    My mare wonders about all this fuss about birth control when she's only seen a handful of testicles in her entire life. Living with an intact male of my species, I feel differently! WAYSIDE



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieBlaueReiterin View Post
    why doesn't he wear his hearing aids?

    you mentioned above that the general ed classroom doesn't seem right for him. why is he not in a class or school for children with his needs?

    (assuming this is public school)

    Unless he has a physical or cognitive disability that prevents him from keeping up with the grade level requirements or has such severe behavioral problems that he is a danger to himself and others he is going to be included in the general classroom. Behavior problems and hearing loss are not going to get you placed in full time special ed. If anything, he would receive emotional support services, especially with a diagnosis of ODD.

    ADD/ADHD can cause behavioral and social problems because the child lacks the ability to notice facial expressions and body language. They don't notice someone scowling or rolling their eyes or trying to avoid talking to them. This is why children with ADD/ADHD tend to seem rather annoying or clueless to what other's think of them. It does not, however, make them super defiant all the time. Unfocused and off task are not malicious or intentional behaviors.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pony+ an inch View Post
    If there is any way to get him in tutoring with someone who specializes with problem children, it may help to some extent... you are treated like that, eventually you fulfill those people's expectations... I'm sorry he doesn't like wearing his hearing aids--I finally was lucky enough to get one this past year, and it has been incredible. Truly I had no idea what I'd been missing over the last decade. Is he embarrassed by them? Or does the sound irritate his ears at all?
    He sees an itinerant teacher of the deaf (TOD) on a weekly basis. I think I will ask for more time with her.

    I'm not sure how we'd find or fit in a private tutor.

    He says the hearing aids hurt. It's taken a long time for him to explain further, but sometimes that means feedback, and sometimes it means irritation of the ear canal. He has new earmolds and we are working on him slowly building up a tolerance to wearing them again.

    He did watch a bit of tv with one on recently & was able to turn the volume down by half. So, I think he realized what a difference they can make. Up until then, I don't think he "knew" how much they could help.

    Does having everything amplified bother/tax you or can you screen out for what you want to hear? What kind of programs do you have on yours?
    ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManyDogs View Post
    Aaaaaggghhh!!!! Poor little guy! i'm sure he is very frustrated.
    First of all, I can understand him not wanting to wear his hearing aids. Is his loss conductive or sensori-neural? How much of a loss is it and how much do the aids help?
    If he does not want to wear his aids he is missing a LOT. No wonder he is acting out. Have you thought about teaching or having him taught sign language/ASL? I'm just tossing out suggestions here-- my background/education is working with visually and hearing impaired people.
    Have you looked into any deaf/ hard of hearing parent support groups?
    PM me if you want.
    Carol
    He has a mixed loss, and it's a reverse cookie bite in both ears. I don't have the dBs in front of me, but can probably post an audiogram at some point.

    His first language is ASL. He became verbal after 3 years of age. He prefers to talk, but does still understand basic sign. But, I think signing needs to be ramped up again. And, it might be appropriate to ask for an interpreter, as he won't have to work so hard at listening.

    I belong to the Arizona chapter of Hands & Voices, and was just assigned a parent guide. Do you have any other support groups you can recommend? Sometimes I feel all alone out here.
    ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by alternate_universe View Post
    (assuming this is public school)

    Unless he has a physical or cognitive disability that prevents him from keeping up with the grade level requirements or has such severe behavioral problems that he is a danger to himself and others he is going to be included in the general classroom. Behavior problems and hearing loss are not going to get you placed in full time special ed. If anything, he would receive emotional support services, especially with a diagnosis of ODD.

    ADD/ADHD can cause behavioral and social problems because the child lacks the ability to notice facial expressions and body language. They don't notice someone scowling or rolling their eyes or trying to avoid talking to them. This is why children with ADD/ADHD tend to seem rather annoying or clueless to what other's think of them. It does not, however, make them super defiant all the time. Unfocused and off task are not malicious or intentional behaviors.
    Yes, it is public school.

    I think it would be a fight to get him into even the self-contained deaf/hard of hearing program in the district, let alone the deaf school.

    alternate-universe explained it well. Basically, to get a placement at the deaf school, the public school district has to admit that they cannot give him a "free and appropriate public eduction" (FAPE).

    There is a d/hh charter school, but DH "doesn't feel he needs it."

    DS is very, very attuned to facial expressions and body language. He is also a strong visual learner, observant of everything, and you can't get much past him if it is something that can be seen.
    ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~



  15. #15
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    Besides looking into getting evaluated have you discussed getting him an aide, especially one that can sign? Since he already has an IEP I don't think it would be totally out of the question, especially if a psych. can say that his behavior problems and physical disability are linked (if they actually are). I've seen children who have only behavioral problems get aides.



  16. #16
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    I have been hard of hearing all my life and as a kid, I had to sit in the front to even half stay up with what was going on.
    Even then, it was a hit and miss thing, which was fine with some helpful teachers, bad with other, very demanding ones, that didn't understand.

    There were no hearing aids then, but even years later, when I tried to get some, they didn't help, just made noises louder, but still could not tell half of what was being said, so the audiologist told me he could not help me.

    I would still have your boy checked for some other that may be going on, that may acerbate the hearing problems, or be caused by them.
    Hearing aids just may not help him, as they didn't me, because yes, you do hear more, just still can't tell what the now louder sounds are anyway.
    For me, high pitched women's voices and kids especially are just garbled sounds, can't tell what they are saying at all.

    I too had riding instructors yelling at me.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logical View Post
    I sought testing for my daughter 3 years ago and I'm glad I did. However, I have not had her tested for ODD. She was tested for ADD and ADHD and barely scored positive for ADHD. IQ was top of the chart. She was off the chart for anxiety and depression (at the time she was only 5 years old!) and medicine was recommended.
    Thank you for sharing this.

    How did you go about having her tested? Through the school and/or privately? How did you locate a doctor? What did you ask to have tested?

    Is the school providing any services or accommodations? Anything you are just doing yourself when you are with her?

    BTW, anyone who'd like to respond via PM, feel free. I know this can be really putting yourself out there & I appreciate info from everyone!

    Time to go get the kiddo...back again later.
    ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~



  18. #18
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    A school psychologist who works for the district can test her. That's the typical route for public school kids I think. The school principal or counselor can set that up... or I think you can contact them yourself maybe. They will ask what the child is having issues with and that will help them determine what tests to administer. There are certain tests that look for certain things. You and the teachers can say what you suspect, but the psychologist may look for other things as well. Also, you can always get a second opinion. Some things can be very hard to diagnose and some psychologists may not be real inclined to give certain labels, even if it's to the child's benefit. If you find that the school psychologist isn't finding many answers you have the right to go to a private one for another look.



  19. #19
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    Default Teacher meetings and cooperation

    My daughter, who is now a 23 year old middle school teacher, is visually impaired. I spent a lot of time pointing out to her teachers the things that she would find visually challenging. I let them know that I was their ally. And to let me know the moment there was a problem.

    For instance, when she was in 2nd grade, she had a wonderful teacher who used all kinds of fun fonts - not so good for the visually impaired. In 6th grade, a teacher loved to use colorful markers on the white board to keep kids engaged - yellow and light blue are really hard for the visually impaired.

    Also it helped to manage her classmates understanding. When she was in first grade, I asked her teacher to explain to her classmates the reason that she was allowed to always sit up front - so that they wouldn't see her as a teacher's favorite.

    It took a lot of research and management on my part. I also met with teachers to see if they felt as if they could handle her needs - before she was assigned to them. I had a very understanding administration and teaching staff - thankfully.

    There were challenges - for sure. But by staying one step ahead of most issues, we were able to get through it.

    Once she was in Middle School, she refused her IEP modifications. She did not want to be singled out - or seen as a special needs kid. At the time, she felt that was a label she did not want to wear. I accepted her request as long as her grades stayed up. She never let me down.

    She was a darn good rider until she left for college. I cringed when she would ride her xc course. I wouldn't let her socialize on the group xc walks - but insisted that she stay ahead and pay attention!

    Now that she's out in the work force, she's itching to get back in the saddle again.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alternate_universe View Post
    Besides looking into getting evaluated have you discussed getting him an aide, especially one that can sign? Since he already has an IEP I don't think it would be totally out of the question, especially if a psych. can say that his behavior problems and physical disability are linked (if they actually are). I've seen children who have only behavioral problems get aides.
    That was actually my thought earlier today, that maybe a signing aide would be of assistance. It hadn't been discussed, but will go on the agenda.

    This whole situation is complicated by changes in staff since the beginning of the year. His teacher went out on a year-long leave of absence, the new principal got reassigned, there is a new guidance counselor, and who knows what other new face will be at the meeting Thursday. I'd say half the people who were at the previous behavior meeting have now been replaced.

    We had just implemented the behavior plan when everyone started leaving. Then it was fall break.

    <sigh>
    ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~



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