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  1. #201
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    Like it or not it's still pretty much male oriented.
    When men have babies then they can talk. There still are not enough consequences for men.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Could we please constrain both genders equally, then, in the name of saving babes? I don't see men paying the same price for that as women. Were we to insure that fathers support their children, you'd have a point.

    I don't think this is a men vs. women thing. Some women are deeply pro-life, too. But by and large, it's not single, poor women deciding that all should pay with abstinence; it is this group that is doing the paying.



  2. #202

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    And one more thing we haven't discussed.

    If a woman has a child from rape, guess what - in most states, the rapist gets paternity rights.

    So not only does she have to deal with having been raped for the rest of her life, if some people have it their way, she'll be forced to have a child she doesn't want, then will have to allow him to have a hand in raising said child, dealing with him for the rest of her life.

    This is "pro" life? Maybe, but it isn't pro-living.
    http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

    Originally Posted by JSwan
    I love feral children. They taste like chicken.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #203
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    This is a tangent but something to also think about. The pressure on girls to have sex that birth control is abundant for many.

    Prior to the 1960s you could say, No sex because I might get pregnant (even with a condom). Guys understood that. Once The Pill came in there was a shift: Go on the pill and we can have sex all the time. And right away, too.

    A lot of pressure was put on young women in the 1970s and after. Whaddya mean, no sex? Go on the pill!

    Intercourse was on its way to becoming the routine of happening really fast in a relationship that it is today.



  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyGiantPony View Post
    If a woman has a child from rape, guess what - in most states, the rapist gets paternity rights.
    That's horrible.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #205
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    Nov. 8, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Yup, check out www.all.org

    Click on education...it's frightening
    It's even worse--Mormons believe that it's a sin for fertile women NOT to conceive. So the next step is you MUST have children, or it's a crime.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freebird! View Post
    OK. I'll bite. And, I'm not posting to change anyone's mind, or make anyone see things my way. I'm just posting my thoughts. That is all.

    I personally think that ALL he was saying is that all life is a gift, no matter how it starts. I do not believe that he was trying to say that God causes rape, or considers rape a gift.

    God know everything. Read Psalms 139. Nothing escapes him. I believe that there are things that he does cause - both good and bad. The Old Testament is full of examples of both. However, I also believe that he allows other things to happen. Why? Because we live in a fallen world. Yes, God is in control, but Satan is at the helm. If I jump out of a five story building, it isn't God that will cause me to die, it would be the Law of Gravity that would take over.

    That said, I also believe that he is powerful enough to make blessings come from any circumstance, even something as horrible as Rape. My husband died almost 5 months ago. He was 31 years old, with a genius IQ. He was drop dead gorgeous, a great cook, a witty sense of humor, and a 22 month old little girl who was pretty crazy for her Daddy. He died of an accidental overdose. Now, I believe with all of my heart that God could have chosen to heal him of his addictions here on Earth. But my Husband struggled terribly, and in his case, I think that God just called him home. I miss him every day. My two kids miss him every day. I have a little girl who will never have a Daddy to run to, or to walk her down the Aisle. I don't believe that it is God's will to see us hurt. But God has blessed us in so many ways in the past 5 months, and I know He is blessing my husband right now.

    The issue isn't about being pro-choice or pro-life. The issue is that we have such a narrow view of things, while God sees the Big Picture. For us, blessings seem to stop at the point of Death. For God they are timeless - without a beginning or an end.


    So if a cat conceives and it's decided that it needs to have the pregnancy terminated, this is against God's will? After all, it's the same biological act that creates the litter of kittens as the human baby.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    So if a cat conceives and it's decided that it needs to have the pregnancy terminated, this is against God's will? After all, it's the same biological act that creates the litter of kittens as the human baby.
    Yabbut, kittens don't have souls.

    (*Not my personal belief, but to the Christians, that's the difference)
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris



  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    So if a cat conceives and it's decided that it needs to have the pregnancy terminated, this is against God's will? After all, it's the same biological act that creates the litter of kittens as the human baby.
    And oh no, we shouldn't be gelding our steeds.......

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #209
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    So God doesn't make the cat conceive but does make the human conceive? Because as I'm interpreting the concept, it's the consequences of God's act that is holy and must not be interfered with.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    The baby a women carries is no more a "part" of her body than the chicken I am cooking today is a part of the oven it is in . Someone has to defend the rights of the unborn.
    So, now we're the equivalent of an "oven"? Great, thanks a lot. Ovens don't have free will, ovens don't have to go out and earn a living to support themselves and their existing children. Ovens don't have health problems. Ovens don't die in the process of cooking a chicken. Ovens don't have feelings and emotions. No one rapes or abuses an oven.

    IMO, this analogy is as misogynistic as any of the BS we're hearing from some politicians.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  11. #211
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    Here's why a vote for any Republican is a vote against women.

    The Republican Governor of IN is on Colbert. Colbert asked him flat out if he was endorsing Mourdock. You'd think he would say, HELL NO.

    Instead he said NOTHING. He didn't respond for several seconds and then said that he wasn't going to endorse anyone, that he "wasn't trying to avoid the question." Colbert said, "You're not trying to avoid it, you are avoiding it."

    Can't you see that these hateful "God intends rape" is what they believe? They LIKE this stuff. How hard is it to say, no way do I support that view? He was silent.

    We really are heading towards an American Taliban with these views.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyGiantPony View Post
    And one more thing we haven't discussed.

    If a woman has a child from rape, guess what - in most states, the rapist gets paternity rights.
    IIRC, that's something of a "side-effect" of states wanting fathers to pay for the kiddos before the state does.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaqua View Post
    Ovens don't have free will, ovens don't have to go out and earn a living to support themselves and their existing children.
    I misread this part the first time I read your reply. What I misread said "Ovens don't have free will, ovens don't have to go out and earn a living to support themselves and their existing chickens. Not children. Jeeze...I'd better not click on this thread anymore.



  14. #214
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    Stop it! You are trying to use LOGIC! Doesn't apply!

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    So God doesn't make the cat conceive but does make the human conceive? Because as I'm interpreting the concept, it's the consequences of God's act that is holy and must not be interfered with.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    So God doesn't make the cat conceive but does make the human conceive? Because as I'm interpreting the concept, it's the consequences of God's act that is holy and must not be interfered with.
    Dude, I have no idea. The logic of the Christian right is completely foreign to me.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by threedogpack View Post
    I misread this part the first time I read your reply. What I misread said "Ovens don't have free will, ovens don't have to go out and earn a living to support themselves and their existing chickens. Not children. Jeeze...I'd better not click on this thread anymore.
    Nope, I think you're pretty on the ball...if an oven had children, they'd be more likely to be chickens...well, now I"m confused too


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #217
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    All the stupid statements aside. These fools are just after the fundamental Christian base. We've got one here, Rivard running for assembly, "some girls rape easy." WTF? Just keep your mouth shut before you remove all doubt....


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #218
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    Let's say some day in the future, human beings could use animals as surrogate mothers--in other words, implant a fertilized egg into a gorilla. Does this make the gorilla human in the biblical sense?

    If science could do this, would it be a sin not to if the human mother was unable to carry to term?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #219
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    I am not going to change your mind, you have your blind faith, that is not based on logic or reason. Just DO NOT EVER EVER EVER impose your RELIGION upon me.

    I am NOT AN OVEN.

    As an American, I demand FREEDOM from YOUR religious beliefs!!

    I will never impose on your rights to believe as you wish, you do not have the rights to try to control MY BODY with your RELIGION.


    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    Yes, carried out by us not God. Don't blame Him for what some misguided people may do in His name. Nobody denies the right to do with your body as you wish. If a woman wants to cut off her hand ( or anything else she was born with) be my guest. The baby a women carries is no more a "part" of her body than the chicken I am cooking today is a part of the oven it is in . Someone has to defend the rights of the unborn.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  20. #220
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    Northern Indiana
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Here's why a vote for any Republican is a vote against women.

    The Republican Governor of IN is on Colbert. Colbert asked him flat out if he was endorsing Mourdock. You'd think he would say, HELL NO.

    Instead he said NOTHING. He didn't respond for several seconds and then said that he wasn't going to endorse anyone, that he "wasn't trying to avoid the question." Colbert said, "You're not trying to avoid it, you are avoiding it."

    Can't you see that these hateful "God intends rape" is what they believe? They LIKE this stuff. How hard is it to say, no way do I support that view? He was silent.

    We really are heading towards an American Taliban with these views.
    Daniels is making a HUGE effort to not make any statements for or against anything political right now - he just got hired on as the president of Purdue University (by a board that was 90% appointed by him, go figure) and is attempting to be 'non-political' apparently. I'm just glad I'll only have one semester of him being the president before I graduate. I fear for the university.
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.



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