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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by jen-s View Post
    They fumble because the vast majority of rape victims never come forward. The people who could put paid to their false arguments are too busy picking up their own lives or too shamed by the judgmental actions of others to come forward.

    I was 18 and a virgin when I was raped. My own mother still doesn't know. Hell, only 2 of my friends know. It was hell on earth. My religious upbringing made the guilt and shame nearly unbearable. My rapist is now a minister. I neither asked for it nor deserved it. I was lucky though in one way--my only "consequences" were emotional/psychological trauma. But the wait until I knew was utterly horrific as there was no way in hell I would have been welcomed home pregnant and unwed. I'd already been told that if "something happened" I'd get sent away to have the baby. I started college in 1997, not 1957.

    GotGait--((((hugs))))

    oh dear goodness...
    Many hugs to you! On many levels.

    (and surprisingly no surprise when you said he is now a minister...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #162
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    jen-s, I'm so sorry. Thank you for your post, which was excellent.

    First time the "appreciate" term made sense, because I sure appreciate all that jen-s said.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    I dont think it is an easy choice, but it does not make it the right one.

    My comments about selfish and lazy were directed to the women talking about their career suffering or the cost of a child as being a good reason to "get rid" of it.

    But then again since that is the LARGEST portion of abortion reasons then I am speaking to a lot of women yes.

    Do you think it is empowering for a woman to get aid from the government or her "man" to get an abortion? Do you think this is a right in the same sense as equal rights in the work place?

    I see it as sad and enslaving yourself to something different altogether. Regret.
    how do YOU know what the right choice for someone else is? it's none of your damn business. the cost of a child and lack of a career is why i got an abortion (i got pg in grad school, working 3 part time jobs and trying to support myself and 2 horses. no way i could have afforded a baby on top of it all). shit happens. why should YOU or anyone else have the right to tell ME what to do with MY body? i can't stand people like you. it was actually absolutely empowering for me to be able to CHOOSE to get an abortion (and yes, the father did pay for it...see above, no money). and i have no regrets, at all, and if god forbid i got pregnant again tomorrow, i'd get an abortion again.

    the irony is i'm a teacher in the ghetto where i see daily how bad it can be for unwanted children, and my SO and i are saving money to buy a farm so we can foster and adopt the kids in the schools where we teach. what are YOU doing to help kids who are born to women who don't want them or can't take care of them?
    My mare wonders about all this fuss about birth control when she's only seen a handful of testicles in her entire life. Living with an intact male of my species, I feel differently! WAYSIDE


    16 members found this post helpful.

  4. #164
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    It's just different when it's someone you "know." It shouldn't be, but it is. And IMHO, that's how we have to fight these types of "misstatements." They can't take our power away if we don't let them. But it's hard to fight when you're still sorting through the trauma.
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.



  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    I live in Indiana and the Republican candidate for senate made some controversial comments in his latest debate.

    Mourdock, who has been locked in one of the country's most expensive and closely watched Senate races, was asked during the final minutes of a debate Tuesday night whether abortion should be allowed in cases of rape or incest.

    "The only exception I have to have an abortion is in the case of the life of the mother," said Mourdock, the Tea Party-backed state treasurer. "I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God. I think that even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

    Thoughts?
    A very poorly worded comment by Mr. Mourdock. I don't believe that abortion is the way in any circumstance, no matter how horrible it may be. People do awful, horrible, unthinkable things to one another very day and unfortunately rape and incest also bring the possibility of conceiving a child. God does not intend or plan these things, but is grieved by man's actions. As with any choice that is made here on earth, good or bad there are consequences to it, whether you are the offender or just the innocent victim .


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #166
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    So, God believes there should be consequences to the victim? So, a child molested by her father hasn't suffered enough, and she should face death or life long health issues by bringing her father's spawn into the world? Oh, and most likely life long crushing poverty? That's really what you want to go with?
    You are what you dare.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  7. #167
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    I can only imagine what that felt like.
    This is the problem with our system - YOU felt like somehow it was your fault.
    Love the irony that the man is now a minister. WOW
    I'm so sorry for your pain.
    You're right you didn't go to college in 1957 - not sure why we want to go back that far.

    Quote Originally Posted by jen-s View Post
    They fumble because the vast majority of rape victims never come forward. The people who could put paid to their false arguments are too busy picking up their own lives or too shamed by the judgmental actions of others to come forward.

    I was 18 and a virgin when I was raped. My own mother still doesn't know. Hell, only 2 of my friends know. It was hell on earth. My religious upbringing made the guilt and shame nearly unbearable. My rapist is now a minister. I neither asked for it nor deserved it. I was lucky though in one way--my only "consequences" were emotional/psychological trauma. But the wait until I knew was utterly horrific as there was no way in hell I would have been welcomed home pregnant and unwed. I'd already been told that if "something happened" I'd get sent away to have the baby. I started college in 1997, not 1957.

    GotGait--((((hugs))))


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Odd, I get the same attitude from the Left. The venom directed at any candidate, especially toward Repub women is astonishing.
    Consider all of the things said about Palin and her family, the vile names they have been called, the unfounded lawsuits. Basically any woman who doesn't toe the Democratic/Liberal line is vilified.
    Any woman? Ever heard of Condoleezza Rice? Pretty educated, intelligent REPUBLICAN.

    Palin was called names because she had no clue.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  9. #169
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    The other part of the discussion is where the he&& is the GUY in all this. The MEN want us women to pay the consequences while they get off scot-free. What the (Bleep) is wrong with this picture??

    Quote Originally Posted by GotGait View Post
    So, God believes there should be consequences to the victim? So, a child molested by her father hasn't suffered enough, and she should face death or life long health issues by bringing her father's spawn into the world? Oh, and most likely life long crushing poverty? That's what really what you want to go with?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotGait View Post
    So, God believes there should be consequences to the victim? So, a child molested by her father hasn't suffered enough, and she should face death or life long health issues by bringing her father's spawn into the world? Oh, and most likely life long crushing poverty? That's what really what you want to go with?

    I said that there are consequences to a man's actions. To both the offender and sadly the victim ( in this case the child as well). Why do you expect God to step in with a magic wand and make all the bad stuff go away? Why should He?


    Since the beginning of Creation with Adam & Eve. They choose to go against God and believe what Satan told them " that you will be like God". What they had in paradise wasn't enough. What has the world been like since? Look at the history of this whole world and what people are capable of doing to one another. You who want a world without God and all his stifling rules & morals, here it is.



  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by fooler View Post
    Read what I said. Each woman should be treated as an individual. For some the morning after pill is right, others may wait and make a decision based on whether they are impregnated or not. Some are able to deal with it on their own, others with some therapy, others may be totally devastated and require extensive therapy.
    Our mistake is viewing all women as the same. A quick review of this board proves we woman are varied and wonderful.

    The female victim of rape or incest should never be shamed for 1) being chosen by the fiend and 2) choosing to abort or keep any resulting child.
    I said female victim, because I know males who were raped by foster fathers and the pain and shame they feel.

    As stated before, there is one resolution for a properly identified rapist or incest perp-a quick, simple death.
    FWIW one argument against the death penalty for rapists is that the rapist would be more likely to kill the woman if he knew either way he faced the death penalty. If the penalty is the same may as well kill the woman so she can't testify
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    •47% of women who have abortions had at least one previous abortion (AGI).

    •On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).

    http://www.abort73.com/abortion_fact...on_statistics/
    So, women (who were probably using some sort of BC, indicating they didn't want to have a child) who have other RESPONSIBILITIES, can't afford a child (with little aid available) or who would be a single parent....there's that gun violence thing....should have the child?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #173
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    We're going to have to agree to disagree. I think this ultra religious strict world view is damaging and does more harm than good. I see no difference between it and fundamentalists of any religion.
    You are what you dare.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  14. #174
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    One cannot reason with those who do not place their beliefs in reason and rational thinking – that’s why I tend to stay out of these discussions. You are not going to reason with someone and change their blind belief.

    Just do not EVER impose your blind belief upon me.

    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    Look at the history of this whole world and what people are capable of doing to one another. You who want a world without God and all his stifling rules & morals, here it is.
    Yes, and look at the alarming amount of violence and inhumanity that has been carried out in this world in the name of "God”.
    Last edited by Appsolute; Oct. 30, 2012 at 04:29 PM.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  15. #175
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    Religion has nothing to do with rape and child molestation and abortion. Except when; it is used as an excuse. Or to cover up the perp. Years ago in Atlanta the front page of the Constitution had the story of the death of a Methodist minister, affiliated with Emory Univ and it's church. Big article, lots of good deeds for the university. My public defender had gone to Emory with the daughter of the deceased minister. Her father, the minister, had molested her for many years when she was growing up. She left Atlanta, moved to California, married and had children.
    When her father died, after years of her having no contact with her mother or father, since the mother had known of the molestation while it was happening but said nothing, the woman was told she needed to come back and go to the funeral. The victim told my friend how much it hurt her to have to sit there at the funeral and hear all those people say good things about her father, when he had raped and molested her till she got into college. I never knew if she had had abortions to prevent giving birth to the child of her white male, upper class, methodist minister father. More like monster than minister.l

    ETA: The above being posted because that minister standing up in front of you on Sunday morning, the man telling you what is evil and what is good, the man interpreting the Bible for you, just may be the male minister who is having sex with his own child. Think about that the next time you believe everything that a minister tells you about God. Although I must admit that the liberal presby women's college that I graduated from had a great religion program. I learned about the concentric circle theory there, which I firmly believe in.

    The best religion is that which does not allow hypocrisy. So far, I think the episcopal church, with all its many flaws, is doing a little better than some other churches. Of course we just had a schism over gays.
    Last edited by cloudyandcallie; Oct. 31, 2012 at 05:30 AM.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemooncowgirl View Post

    Abortion is murder under ALL circumstances.
    Carry on.
    Actually, no. Murder is a legal term. Abortion is not defined as murder under any legal definition in the US that I'm aware of.

    If you beleive abortion is "murder", then do you believe women who obtain one should be convicted under the law? For murder? For manslaughter?

    A woman is raped, becomes pregnant, aborts, and SHE'S the one who is to be convicted of a crime? Really?
    http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

    Originally Posted by JSwan
    I love feral children. They taste like chicken.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  17. #177
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    Well, if abortion is murder then taking BCP's is "pre-emptive" murder, isn't it.

    IMO if we allow religion based beliefs to drive certain legislation, it won't be long before some will decide they want to ban birth control as well.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    8 members found this post helpful.

  18. #178
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    Jen-s, so very sorry for your experience. Thank you for posting about this subject from your perspective.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #179
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    If you believe abortion constitutes murder, then that should not be affected by how the life came to exist. Simple logic.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #180
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    It would seem to be that if people who found abortion to be wrong would do all they could to encourage the free access to abortion but these are the same politicians who are against that very thing. If you want to prevent the need for abortion, than make birth control free and accessible to all (not just those employed by secular agencies).

    I find it completely hypocritical that the same people who want to deny access to abortion also want to deny access to birth control.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert...b_1288802.html

    You cannot say you are against abortion and in the same breath deny access to something that prevents the need for an abortion in the first place...


    6 members found this post helpful.

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