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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Indiana
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    Default Mourdock and his rape comment

    I live in Indiana and the Republican candidate for senate made some controversial comments in his latest debate.

    Mourdock, who has been locked in one of the country's most expensive and closely watched Senate races, was asked during the final minutes of a debate Tuesday night whether abortion should be allowed in cases of rape or incest.

    "The only exception I have to have an abortion is in the case of the life of the mother," said Mourdock, the Tea Party-backed state treasurer. "I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God. I think that even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

    Thoughts?



  2. #2
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    Nov. 13, 2010
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    Default

    Well, coming from a religious household, I do, in some sense, understand that perspective.

    However, I am firmly pro-choice, especially in situations like rape. I don't really care if it was God's will or not. It should be the woman's choice of whether or not she would like to keep a reminder of a terrible experience.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Indiana
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    Default

    I'll follow up with these two articles since my opinion has already been formed.

    God Distances self from Christian Right
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/god...n-right,30087/

    A fan letter to conservatives from a rapist
    http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/10/2...e-politicians/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    Sep. 30, 2007
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    Default

    I second enjoytheride!



  5. #5
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    May. 17, 2010
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    Where humidity isn't just a word, it's a way of life.
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    Default

    Firmly pro-choice, with a question.

    I understand being religious and having the firm belief that life is sacred from the moment you believe it begins and that destroying that life is wrong.

    What I don't understand is believing strongly in the above, except in the case of rape or incest. How does who the father/how conception occured play into the "life begins at conception and it is murder to have an abortion" belief?

    While I think Mourdock is an idiot, he is an idiot that stands by his beliefs while knowing that sharing them will likely have a negative effect on his chances.


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  6. #6
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    Jun. 25, 2004
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    Carolinas
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    Default

    His comments were his opinion, something all of us have. I disagree with his opinion in this matter.

    I have one solution for properly identified rapists and incest predators - death. With no penalties for anyone protecting themselves from such creatures. And finally, if the attack results in pregnancy, then the woman should should receive council both pro and con as to whether SHE decides to abort, carry and kept or carry and send for adoption.

    However, I believe there should be fewer abortions in general. That we, male and female should be more conscious in our decisions before having sex to avoid as many unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 27, 2009
    Posts
    235

    Default

    It always boggles my mind that a man could or should have an opinion on abortion. If you think that someome should have to carry a baby that results from a rape then I say you carry it,nuture it and look after it.

    I do have a strong opinion on this subject.


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  8. #8
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    Jun. 27, 2005
    Location
    KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dare1 View Post
    If you think that someome should have to carry a baby that results from a rape then I say you carry it,nuture it and look after it.
    And pay for everything it needs for the next 18 years.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


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  9. #9
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    Oct. 20, 2005
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    Default

    I'm still trying to figure out the distinction between rape and incest. Rape is rape is rape. Consensual sex between people of age isn't illegal, no matter how effed up the relationship between the people is.

    My view is that if you can take it out of my body, get it to grow and then live, then you can have it. Can't/won't do that? Then why should I if I don't wish to.

    I am not religious. Using "God's will" explains away a lot, for people who *are* religious. They certainly have the right, and I have no problem with it; just don't apply it to me.
    It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    15,268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    "The only exception I have to have an abortion is in the case of the life of the mother," said Mourdock, the Tea Party-backed state treasurer. "I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God. I think that even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."
    "If it happened then God willed it, the Guy being omnipotent and all."

    I see this as damaging, alienating logic. Right after the phenomenon of conception-- that includes rape, or puts the life of the mother at risk, or insures a long life of suffering for the unwanted/underfunded child, this kind of person must account for stuff like the Holocaust and tortures large, small and creative as also God's will.

    With a God like that in charge why would anyone want one of Him?

    You can't argue that God is responsible for great things, e. g. the gift of life, but not the magnificently bad stuff that happens in the world.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  11. #11
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    Nov. 18, 2010
    Location
    california
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    4,222

    Default

    I think there is a big difference between what someone's opinion is and what they want the law to be for others. However, to have an old man dictate that girls, even victims of incest should be forced to bear children, well it sounds similar to what those women/girls in Afganistan have to endure. I don't consider those kind of laws just, fair or even remotely in keeping with a civil society.


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  12. #12
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    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
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    I'm fine with it (I live over the border so I won't be voting for or against him, but I see all the ads.) I'm more concerned with getting people who'll vote in my FINANCIAL interest in than obsessing over my reproductive organs so I tune out ALL the "REPUBLICANS WILL TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO GET ABORTIONS AND MAKE YOU PAY FOR YOUR OWN BIRTH CONTROL (like you ought to anyway if you're going to engage in behavior that can result in pregnancy.)"

    Slewdle, I think incest IS actually illegal in some jurisdictions, I think what everyone uses it as in these discussions as a euphemism for adult relative/minor child pregnancies.


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  13. #13
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    Mar. 4, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slewdledo View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out the distinction between rape and incest. Rape is rape is rape. Consensual sex between people of age isn't illegal, no matter how effed up the relationship between the people is.

    My view is that if you can take it out of my body, get it to grow and then live, then you can have it. Can't/won't do that? Then why should I if I don't wish to.

    I am not religious. Using "God's will" explains away a lot, for people who *are* religious. They certainly have the right, and I have no problem with it; just don't apply it to me.
    Incest is sexual conduct between family members.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest

    Believe me, as someone who volunteers with neglected and abused kids, incest is generally not consensual.

    As to Mourdock's views, as much as I disagree with him, I believe he was being sincere. However, (and this is the really really big beef I have with conservative Christians) he does NOT have the right to force his religious views on others.


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  14. #14
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Montana
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    Stolen Virtue-TOTALLY agree. Back to the Stone Age for women, always seems okay to be talking about how to legislate women's bodies and, most importantly, sex! As Tina Fey says, "sad, grey faced men with 2 dollar hair cuts" telling women about what they can and can't do with their bodies.

    And in a wierd twist, I think I read that a woman in Chicago was faced with the choice of saying that her rapist was NOT the father of her child and therefore not entitled to parental rights, OR that he was, and thus open the door for him to apply for custody

    I think rapists, once CONVICTED, forgo any parental rights (I would have thought this anyway) but apparently my view is not shared, which I find interesting. I cannot image the horror of having to deal with CUSTODY issues, on top of RAPE!!! At all. Ever.

    And I agree with who ever noted that no one (one hopes) talks about the Holocaust as "God's will" and thinks we should have stood by and not intervened? Child abuse? One might argue that God gave us brains and the capacity to address evil in the world as well!


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  15. #15
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    Feb. 27, 2011
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    Default

    I don't understand how Mourdock could say that god doesn't will the rape, but does will the pregnancy. I don't think he's consistent at all in his beliefs. Either you believe that god causes all events or you don't.

    I'm tired of men in politics offering some kind of "compromise" to women in which abortion will be OK in the case of rape. They never say how that will work exactly. Does the rapist have to be arrested? Does he have to be convicted? Will a woman have to appear before a panel of men and convince them she's worthy of an abortion?

    None of these men ever seem to want to talk about what happens when abortion is illegal again. I remember those days. I remember when a first year med student was as good as it got and it was rarely that good. Apparently, women's lives don't matter. If you're killed by a back alley abortionist, you've paid the price for having sex.

    One poster says she's more concerned about her finances than control of her own body. I submit that you can't separate the two. If a woman is forced by the government to have a child she doesn't want, her pocketbook takes a huge hit. She has all the expenses of raising that child and probably takes a step closer to poverty.


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  16. #16
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    Jul. 21, 2006
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    South Carolina
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    Me, I believe with Gloria Steinem that if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

    But what I believe Mr. Mourdock was trying to say - although he phrased it badly - is a variation on "all things work together for good for them that love the Lord." IOW, God can make something good come out of the most tragic situations.

    Anyway, I think religion and politics need to stay separate. When they don't, religion is always the loser.


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  17. #17
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by norton View Post
    I don't understand how Mourdock could say that god doesn't will the rape, but does will the pregnancy. I don't think he's consistent at all in his beliefs. Either you believe that god causes all events or you don't.

    I'm tired of men in politics offering some kind of "compromise" to women in which abortion will be OK in the case of rape. They never say how that will work exactly. Does the rapist have to be arrested? Does he have to be convicted? Will a woman have to appear before a panel of men and convince them she's worthy of an abortion?

    None of these men ever seem to want to talk about what happens when abortion is illegal again. I remember those days. I remember when a first year med student was as good as it got and it was rarely that good. Apparently, women's lives don't matter. If you're killed by a back alley abortionist, you've paid the price for having sex.

    One poster says she's more concerned about her finances than control of her own body. I submit that you can't separate the two. If a woman is forced by the government to have a child she doesn't want, her pocketbook takes a huge hit. She has all the expenses of raising that child and probably takes a step closer to poverty.

    I think your ideas fall under the statement this other moron spouted: If it's legitimate rape the body finds a way to shut it down and pregnancy does not occur...so you get knocked up, no rape.

    Yeah, the gift that keeps on giving....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  18. #18
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    The problem is, as I see it, that some religions define personhood as beginning at conception. Some define it later, the medical profession included. The Jewish religion defines personhood as able to take a breath.

    Last I checked, I live in the United States of America which does not have a national religion. We are not a theocracy. So, why should we live by the rules and beliefs of one or two sects of Christianity? Practice what ever you want, but don't tell me what my rights are as far as abortion, contraception or sexuality.

    BTW, did you hear? Planned Parenthood clients have fewer abortions than the general population.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Sep. 11, 2008
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    Snohomish, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by norton View Post
    I don't understand how Mourdock could say that god doesn't will the rape, but does will the pregnancy. I don't think he's consistent at all in his beliefs. Either you believe that god causes all events or you don't.

    I'm tired of men in politics offering some kind of "compromise" to women in which abortion will be OK in the case of rape. They never say how that will work exactly. Does the rapist have to be arrested? Does he have to be convicted? Will a woman have to appear before a panel of men and convince them she's worthy of an abortion?

    None of these men ever seem to want to talk about what happens when abortion is illegal again. I remember those days. I remember when a first year med student was as good as it got and it was rarely that good. Apparently, women's lives don't matter. If you're killed by a back alley abortionist, you've paid the price for having sex.

    One poster says she's more concerned about her finances than control of her own body. I submit that you can't separate the two. If a woman is forced by the government to have a child she doesn't want, her pocketbook takes a huge hit. She has all the expenses of raising that child and probably takes a step closer to poverty.




    Next thing ya know, we'll be shot for wanting an education.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2004
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    Medford Oregon
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    917


    1 members found this post helpful.

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