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  1. #501
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    btdt. Another think. I posted my honest views and I research both sides pretty thoroughly. I read through all the replies and I was called crazy, my posts were ridiculous and fictitious (I sure didn't make anything up - don't know exactly where that one came from) and it was stated that I had no credibility. Yours was the FIRST response that asked how can we see things so differently. So thank you for that.


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  2. #502
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    Hm. Minnie, care to give me ANY statistics on Romney's financial plans, because I've looked all over and I can't find a single thing with any actual facts, which change constantly. The lying really gets to me.

    Care to supply me with any jobs bills the R's have passed? I know they keep voting down the veteren's jobs bill.

    Cool with whatever view on abortion. Everyone knows it's a LOT cheaper to provide birth control than to pay for childbirth, healthcare, welfare, education, and life imprisonment of the child forced to be born. (I see these kids every day.) I am NOT cool with ANYONE telling me what I can do with my body and find it COMPLETELY offensive the R party is SO bent on passing laws to tell me what I can do with it.

    I think Romney is VERY rude, and creepy. BS with the taxes. He lives off over inflated salaries he got from Bain capital stripping companies of assets and taking money from them, and getting hidden money from the bailout. It's SO nice when you are a multimillionare and van pretend you give SO much to charity and make you feel good about yourself and pretend you had nothing to do with misery. If he had an OUNCE of heart in him, he would employ these people. He destroyed a town in Illinois so he could make more money.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grQTu...ature=youtu.be
    Too bad he spent his time in the debates dising Obama for selling out to China when that's what he did.

    I guess I'm pretty old school. My grandfather worked at a hardware store and invested his whole life and saved enough to live on and pay for his care when he was old. They never bought us presents, but stocks for the future. When my father died and left my mom with three young children, the social security kept us fed. Those stocks helped me pay for school, while I worked the whole time. I have worked hard for everything I have, and chosen a career to teach, which isn't high paying, but tries to make society better.

    I guess for me it's not all about money and I deserve mine, so screw you. I SEE where that gets us, because as much as horrible adults deserve what they get, the kids they make MUST be given the chance, or we crew our future. I see no value in making myself richer or having more cars, or houses, or jets. What makes life worth living is making the world a better place by helping those around you and treating them all with value. If we can just change and help one person at a time, then they pass that on, and so and so on.

    I read everything I can get my hands on (mostly so I can have facts to type in here.) I'm sure we could have great discussions, and probably come to some solutions. I see two messed up sides here, with one going over the deep end and hell bent on destroying this country so they can make one guy look bad and get control. And if Romney gets in and puts some nutter in the Supreme Court, it's going to make the insanity of Citizens United look like child's play.

    I did not read the whole thread, so I'm sorry if people called you names. I didn't even know OT day was here and have been going through some major nasty family shit. Please excuse some people. I always try to talk to people with different opinions until they get rude. There have been some people who have a bad reputation for that.


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  3. #503
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    Funny how we can have such similar backgrounds and still view things so differently. My Father was a disabled wwII vet and died when I was 12. Mom had worked since I was 3, as Dad could only do a little work parttime when he was physically able. I remember he spent a lot of time in the va hospital. They wanted to amputate both his legs and one arm. He said "no, thank you". This was during the 50's, so you know Mom didn't make a whole lotta money. I started working right after Daddy died. I baby sat and walked beans and when I was 14 started working in a steak house busing tables. Made 50 cents/hr and all I could eat of hamburgers/chicken and frenchfries and onion rings! LOL I really liked that job.

    I have 2 daughters, BOTH teachers!

    It's often hard (and tiring) to carry on a discussion through the printed word. But then, in person, it's often hard to hear what each other is saying because everyone's trying to drown out the other. But I think there's more to agree on than disagree. And there's more than one way to go about achieving something. But nothing gets done if people don't even try. So.....term limits! If they're not always worrying about getting reelected, maybe they can finally make the tough decisions that no one's gonna like but that have to be made.


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  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Oh well, it is a short read. Let's see the "specifics":

    1. Energy independance.
    2. Trade, open new markets confront China.
    3. Better schools better access to higher education.
    4. Cut deficit reduce government.
    5. Champion small business, tax reform lower tax rates, cut red tape.

    So this "plan" is what is selling you Romney/Ryan supporters ? There are no details but I think Romney/Ryan said that if they provided details they might not get elected.

    I actually thought there was more than this to their plan, this plan would never get me a project from a client. Shall I ask the oh, so obvious ?

    1.Energy-what energy programs will be supported ? More fracking ? off-shore drilling ? How do these programs get funded ?
    2. Open new trade. To whom, for what how to make American products compete on the global market without outsourcing ?
    Confront China. How, what ?
    3. Better schools better access to higher education. How, voucher ? Less government so how ?
    4. Cut deficit reduce spending. How
    5. Champion small business, tax reform. How ? Take away our deductions and then lower rates-won't reduce taxes or reduce the deficit.

    Really this plan is solid enough for you to vote these guys in and then have them fill in the blanks ? That amazes me that anyone can buy into this "plan" and their social changes proposed.

    And you call those of us supporting the President's plan dense.....
    So BTDT these are the questions that have yet to be addressed by the pro-Romney/Ryan crowd. How about addressing your candidates responses to these questions.......but bashing Obama is so much easier....

    Third time posting this....no response.
    Last edited by stolen virtue; Nov. 1, 2012 at 01:06 AM. Reason: PS.


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  5. #505
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    Yeah. It's all perspective. Huntertwo and I vehemently disagree and I was afraid to see her posts for a long time, but she approached me on my nightmare family issues, and we are good friends. I'm still working on getting her to vote the "right" way.

    The idea is we have to talk and HAVE to work it out. I think most of us have the same major goals, but are being fed different information as to how to achieve that. I don't know that term limits is the way. I LOVE my representative. He is one of the best. He's been anti-war, cut the military, keep the good programs, get rid of the subsidies to the oil companies for a long time. Some are good. I think a better way is to repeal Citizens United, ALL political donations go into ONE fund and ALL candidates get equal access. But, how to get the laws passed that have made these guys rich because they know they have the fat cats to support them for life for the laws they passed (Cheney- Haliburton et al), I don't know.


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  6. #506
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    stolen--We're talking. Step one. Slowly we try to go back and forth on disputed facts.

    And, minnie, ANY response to how you can cut taxes 20%, pay off the debt, increase military, and get more jobs? Ryan's plan is a crock of shit, and his Nut Case Tea Party crap scares me--the personhood bill? Really? Take away bargaining rights from teachers?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #507
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    Romney and Ryan are delusional, really give me a pro-choice republican and I am giddy but these boys are crazytown...


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #508
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    Even after Sandy hit NJ and NYC, Romney is still saying that states should take care of themselves. He's against help by the federal government. Think about that when you vote. NJ and NYC need all the help that the US Government can give them.

    I was shocked when Gov. Christie praised Obama's response. Christie has seen what has happened to the people on his coastline.

    When Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast, and Bush2 said that "Brownie was doing a great job," I figured that they were just writing off the minorities and southerners. But Romney and the Tea Party Republicans really would let the people of NJ and NYC fend for themselves.

    There's a clear choice in November. The issues of government aid for natural disasters like Sandy and for man made disasters like the auto industry and recession, as well as the issues of women and rape and the idiot belief that God wants rape victims to get pregnant and keep the babies, should give people a choice between letting everyone fend for themselves, vs. the belief that people should be helped by government as well as by individuals. I don't know what Christian churches some of the people go to, but in my episcopal faith, we believe in helping others. Including using our tax money to help others.


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  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Even after Sandy hit NJ and NYC, Romney is still saying that states should take care of themselves. He's against help by the federal government. Think about that when you vote. NJ and NYC need all the help that the US Government can give them.
    Yeah, and even if one looked at it from a cold hearted financial perspective, rather than a humanitarian one (which should be good enough!), how would it NOT be in the best interest of the country as a whole to help the NYC/NJ area get back on it's feet as quickly as possible? That metropolitan area employs A LOT of people and produces A LOT of federal tax revenue. Not too sure how well we'd all fare without a functioning NYC area.

    GDP by Metropolitan area:
    http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regi...ewsrelease.htm

    Letting NYC/NJ fend for itself would be like a family deciding that they didn't want to help the injured breadwinner get better. Cutting off it's nose to spite it's face, all in the name of ideology.


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  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    And making a comment about us having 57 states is ok??? Sign of someone competent???
    Yes, that was a stupid thing to say. You can't see the difference, though, can you? You can pick ONE stupid factual error in a lifetime of speaking in public. Palin was forever saying uneducated things. She could not answer simple questions even when she was highly coached & highly briefed. Like this gem: "He who warned, uh, the British that they weren't gonna be takin' away our arms, uh, by ringing those bells, and um, makin' sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed." --Sarah Palin, botching the history of Paul Revere's midnight ride, June 3, 2011

    When criticizing the Supreme Court she was asked which decisions they made she disagreed with. She couldn't name ONE.

    Or this: "But obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies." --Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck's radio show, Nov. 24, 2010 Bet that came as a surprise to the entire USA. Not to mention South Korea. Or North Korea.

    And here's a typical Republican hypocrisy quote: "We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada. And I think now, isn't that ironic?" --Sarah Palin, admitting that her family used to get treatment in Canada's single-payer health care system, despite having demonized such government-run programs as socialized medicine that will lead to death-panel-like rationing, March 6, 2010

    But maybe now you'll try to "refudiate" (another Palin word) these statements and continue to believe she's a beacon for women's intelligence.


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  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    btdt, you're right, we are "looking at different parts of the elephant". I wasn't overly thrilled with Romney in the beginning, but the more I learn about him, the more I've come to admire him. I've not liked everything about his campaign, but for the most part have found it far more palatable than that of his opponet.

    His financial plans are pretty sound and have been proven before. The Republican congress has passed several jobs bill, all nicely hidden away in Harry Reid's drawer.

    We have opposing views on abortion. I really didn't think much about abortion one way or the other in my younger days, but I definitely evolved into pro-life. It is a very difficult subject. I'm not a bible thumping religious nut, but I truly believe in the miracle of life and that God has a plan for each life. I will not impose my will upon anyone else, that is my personal choice, but neither do I believe that my taxpayer dollars should pay for a single abortion.

    Romney is anything but rude. He is, however, reserved and private and I think it's very difficult for him to blow his own horn. He really doesn't pay less taxes than most of the country. Remember, his tax rate is reduced because he contributes roughly 25-30% of his income to charity, reducing his rate as does anyone else in the country. That's several million to charity each year. He's also given a lot of his TIME to charitable causes, which says even more about him. It's really easy for someone who's rich to write a check. The person who truly believes in helping others donates his time. Which he has done over and over.

    I guess I'm pretty old school, too. I came from poor, really poor and lived most of my life poor. Everything I have, my husband and I worked hard to obtain. We asked no one for help and didn't apply for any government handouts, although we more than qualified.

    My husband served his country his entire adult life. We're both fiercely patriotic. I can't sing the star spangled banner because by the time I get to "and the rocket's red glare" I'm already choked up with tears in my eyes. I could go on and on forever on a lot of different aspects, but I guess you and I will never be able to look at anything the same. I DO read both sides and after a couple glasses of wine have actually turned on msnbc (choke!) on occasion. For the debates, I watched on fox and taped msnbc and watched their coverage too. Might as well be 2 different planets.
    Minnie, Love your posts! I think you nailed it for me also.


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  12. #512
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    Kathy S., it's pretty inappropriate to edit someone else's post to say the exact opposite of what they wrote. But, hey, with Romney as a role model, I guess I can see why you are comfortable doing it.


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  13. #513
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    FWIW, I'm actually also independent and quite moderate politically. I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, and "others." How anyone can think that Romney is not a rude, arrogant prick is beyond me. His views on social issues particularly bother me...particularly cutting funding for important organizations like Planned Parenthood, FEMA, and so on. His stance on women's issues is staggeringly backwards. He is out of touch with the American people on so very many issues. And, frankly, I think he has a lot of "ideas" and absolutely no solid plans or even sketches of plans. His plans are about as specific and realistic as what I could come up with hanging out in my basement with friends. Yuck. I think he may be my least favorite candidate ever.


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  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    His financial plans are pretty sound and have been proven before.
    When? The only time in history tax reductions for the upper income brackets have been correlated with growth, the economy was already good.

    I will not impose my will upon anyone else, that is my personal choice, but neither do I believe that my taxpayer dollars should pay for a single abortion.
    Read up on the Hyde Amendment. The only time taxpayer dollars pays for an abortion is in pretty extreme circumstances (or is that not OK either? If we're talking about saving the life of a woman, or a baby who will NOT survive long when he's born thus risking mom's life/health in the process, or in situations of abuse/rape/incest, I guess if you're against it in those circumstances the Hyde Amendment isn't enough. But you sound fairly reasonable on this issue...). I think the "federal money for ABORTIONS!" thing is way overblown - that is politicians pandering to the pro-life "base," because the problem doesn't really exist (sort of like all that voter fraud people are ramped up about)

    Remember, his tax rate is reduced because he contributes roughly 25-30% of his income to charity, reducing his rate as does anyone else in the country. That's several million to charity each year.
    Which is nice... but then I'm of the mindset that churches should be taxed, given the gazillions of dollars they rake in. For some reason I find giving millions to your church a little less inspiring, than, say, giving millions to an education fund for poor kids or to soup kitchens. I'm sure his church does some good things for people, but I'm not super impressed by this.
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


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  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    FWIW, I'm actually also independent and quite moderate politically. I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, and "others." How anyone can think that Romney is not a rude, arrogant prick is beyond me. His views on social issues particularly bother me...particularly cutting funding for important organizations like Planned Parenthood, FEMA, and so on. His stance on women's issues is staggeringly backwards. He is out of touch with the American people on so very many issues. And, frankly, I think he has a lot of "ideas" and absolutely no solid plans or even sketches of plans. His plans are about as specific and realistic as what I could come up with hanging out in my basement with friends. Yuck. I think he may be my least favorite candidate ever.
    ^^^ This. I am registered as an Independent. I vote for who I believe is the best person for the job. This year I probably voted 60% Dem and 40% Rep.

    Sadly I (really really really) think that Romney is not the best person for the job.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


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  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    FWIW, I'm actually also independent and quite moderate politically. I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, and "others." How anyone can think that Romney is not a rude, arrogant prick is beyond me. His views on social issues particularly bother me...particularly cutting funding for important organizations like Planned Parenthood, FEMA, and so on. His stance on women's issues is staggeringly backwards. He is out of touch with the American people on so very many issues. And, frankly, I think he has a lot of "ideas" and absolutely no solid plans or even sketches of plans. His plans are about as specific and realistic as what I could come up with hanging out in my basement with friends. Yuck. I think he may be my least favorite candidate ever.
    Did you hear? Today's he's all for FEMA funding, now that Christie has been praising Obama's response to Sandy. He's like magic--he's a one-size fits all candidate! Just tell him what you want to hear and low and behold, he'll change his mind right then and there!



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  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    Did you hear? Today's he's all for FEMA funding, now that Christie has been praising Obama's response to Sandy. He's like magic--he's a one-size fits all candidate! Just tell him what you want to hear and low and behold, he'll change his mind right then and there!

    Maybe some can listen and learn and apply what they learn?
    That used to be considered a good asset in anyone.


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  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe some can listen and learn and apply what they learn?
    That used to be considered a good asset in anyone.
    Just curious...did you say the same thing about John Kerry when he was blasted by your side for being a "flip flopper"?

    I'm guessing...you didn't.


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  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe some can listen and learn and apply what they learn?
    That used to be considered a good asset in anyone.
    Yeah ok.

    So if Mitt were president now and all the Obama haters were crowing that we magically went back in time and got rid of Obama, and he had abolished FEMA according to his old views, then what? Whoops? Sorry people? Yay, we got our way! Please carry on swiming to work through the sewage filled water from your lack of a house so your income can "trickle down" to the rest of us.


    Was this a view point his followers agreed with all along (yeah Mitt! Cut spending! We don't need no disaster preparedness!), until, oh wait, maybe we **should** help the stock market get back up and running?

    It's all great to be for abolishing FEMA until a disaster actually happens? This was all a FABULOUS rah rah Mitt idea until last week???

    Are the Obama haters still against his support of FEMA? Because two weeks ago I bet this would have been "yet another example of Obama's wasteful spending."

    When GOVERNMENT FUNDED scientists predict these disasters a week in advance and save thousands of lives, should we cut them too? Is that also wasteful spending? (But the defense budget, no matter how huge, is never wasteful spending. No no.) Whatever, science is c*ck and bull anyway.
    (As everyone goes and boards up their house because maybe sometimes science is right.)

    Are we glad now that the Democrats got their way and FEMA stayed funded and those crazy scientists who cost one bazillionth of the defense budget stayed in work?


    For the record, NY/NJ/etc are all states that routinely pay OUT much more in Federal taxes that they ever get back. In general, liberal states are more prosperous and pay OUT more in federal taxes, and the conservative states are less prosperous and NEED the money more. So the tax money goes FROM the liberal states who would (allegedly) ruin the country economically if their policies went nationwide, TO the conservative states who have such successful fiscal ideas and would abolish all of these "federal handouts" they thmselves are getting....
    The conservative states may want to support getting Manhattan up and running again since that one city produces a lot of federal tax dollars that gets spread around to everybody else so they can have roads and stuff, too. Funny, that.


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  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie View Post
    Just curious...did you say the same thing about John Kerry when he was blasted by your side for being a "flip flopper"?

    I'm guessing...you didn't.

    Don't remember who John Kerry is?

    You are right assuming I am not on your side, but wrong assuming I am on any one side.

    I am seeing people in extremes on both sides going at it and my comments are reflecting that, that's all.


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