[Ghazzu]

Are you also saying the regular vests don't help?
Also, do you feel the benefits of the air vests are worth the $$? I know you don't think they are a miracle worker, but nothing is.

I sustained lumbar compression fractures while wearing a Tip.

I wasn't wearing any vest when I had my thoracic burst and compression fractures.
I did do a triple somersault, though.

[kdow]

Which type of injuries are, speaking in terms of probabilities, more likely to be catastrophic -- the types you would be more likely to sustain with NO vest, the types you would be more likely to sustain with a rigid traditional vest, or the types you would be more likely to sustain with an air vest? I wanna go with the best odds of avoiding catastrophic injury.

One of my big worries with an air vest is - how can I be sure that the sequence of injury-vest inflation will happen in the right order?

If you get some kind of spinal injury before the vest inflates (maybe because you don't actually part company from the horse as in a rotational fall or something of that nature) then you have a vest going 'poof' and inflating and possibly making the injury significantly worse by making things shift around. So you could go from a non-catastrophic injury to a catastrophic one as a result of the vest inflating.

[RacetrackReject]

One of my big worries with an air vest is - how can I be sure that the sequence of injury-vest inflation will happen in the right order?

If you get some kind of spinal injury before the vest inflates (maybe because you don't actually part company from the horse as in a rotational fall or something of that nature) then you have a vest going 'poof' and inflating and possibly making the injury significantly worse by making things shift around. So you could go from a non-catastrophic injury to a catastrophic one as a result of the vest inflating.

This one of my biggest questions about air vests as well.

So, did anyone here see the fall or see photos of the fall? Was it like Ollie's fall where the vest didn't inflate until after the horse was getting up or did they part company prior to Karen actually hitting the ground?

[deltawave]

I know the comment referenced by the OP was not made by Karen, but she did mention a bunch of times in her own statement how the air vest was so helpful, not sure what exact wording she used.

I hope that air vests turn out to be beneficial. But until that is SHOWN, I'm not wearing one. Medicine is full of horror stories that started out with "This makes a lot of theoretical sense, so we . . . "

[JER]

Why does the Point Two air jacket inspire seemingly-rational people to make up stories about its protective properties?

Why does Point Two choose to rely on myth and hocus-pocus rather than on evidence?

Why does Point Two want riders to make baseless -- and easily disproven, often by visual evidence -- claims about their air jacket rather than tout the quantifiable benefits of their products?

I don't know who this Brian O is (don't do facebook). Can someone explain his qualifications to be making these statements?

[wildlifer]

I sustained lumbar compression fractures while wearing a Tip.

I wasn't wearing any vest when I had my thoracic burst and compression fractures.
I did do a triple somersault, though.

There is no vest (or any gear that I am aware of) that can prevent a compression/burst fracture. It is a result of vertical loading forces on the bone. Maybe super foamy platform boots (kidding on that one)

BTW, "our insides are too sloshy" is brilliant and I am totally using that one.

ETA -- JER, I am assuming Brian O'Connor (infamous event commentator, I've worked with him several times), David's brother, is referred to. Which makes me a little sad, b/c Brian is de bomb and awesome. But no one is perfect, alas. ;-)

[tle]

Why does the Point Two air jacket inspire seemingly-rational people to make up stories about its protective properties?

Why does Point Two choose to rely on myth and hocus-pocus rather than on evidence?

Why does Point Two want riders to make baseless -- and easily disproven, often by visual evidence -- claims about their air jacket rather than tout the quantifiable benefits of their products?

And why does USEA use them as an "official" product without scientific evidence to back their claims?

I could gue$$... and it may be the an$wer to all the question$.

[B Street Tango]

This one of my biggest questions about air vests as well.

So, did anyone here see the fall or see photos of the fall? Was it like Ollie's fall where the vest didn't inflate until after the horse was getting up or did they part company prior to Karen actually hitting the ground?

I saw the fall and it was scary. I'm not sure whether the vest helped, hurt or made no difference at all. To me, it did not look like the horse hit her w a knee or hoof but rather they both went head/shoulders first into the ground with their chins tucked to their chests. She was in front of the horse, slightly wedged between the front of the mare and the ground while the inertia of the horse's speed pushed both of them a few feet before stopping. Thankfully, the horse's hind end landed to the right and didnt completely flip over. I would think the sheer pressure of 1200lbs pushing against you would cause something to give. I can't say for sure when the vest deployed...it all happened so quickly and I was slightly behind the motion because I was standing beside the "a" element of the jump, but I'm pretty sure it deployed before she hit the ground. Things may have looked very different from a different angle. I will say one of the first things she said was she wanted to get the vest off, I'm sure sure to relieve the pressure and she was complaining of pain in her shoulder blades. She is without a doubt an amazingly tough person...she was joking w the emt's within a few minutes.

I normally dont like to watch these types of videos but this time I would like to see the video from a different angle to see if what remember is at all accurate as I know eye witness testimony isn't always all it's cracked up to be.

[vanraf]

Do NOT buy Point Two's all in one vest. The one with the air vest built in with your regular (required) cross country vest. What happens when your horse is over enthusiastic in warm-up and your blow your vest up??? You cannot ride with an inflated vest - it's against the rules.

Wait... when did they make a rule saying you can't go out on course with an inflated vest??? Looking at the USEF rules I'm not seeing anything.

Anyone? This is all I could find in the rule book:

2. PROTECTIVE VESTS.
a. A body protecting vest must be worn warming-up for and in the cross-country test. Stable,
team or club colors are permitted. The Federation recommends that the vest should pass or
surpass the current ASTM standard F1937 or be certified by the Safety Equipment Institute.
Inflatable vests are permitted only when worn over a body protecting vest.
b. Violation of this rule shall be penalized at the discretion of the Ground Jury, and may result in elimination.

[deltawave]

What happens when your horse is over enthusiastic in warm-up and your blow your vest up

You berate yourself for foolishly buying and wearing a product that fails to do what it is meant to do and deploys at the wrong time, and thank your lucky stars that this occurrence didn't cause an accident.

[retreadeventer]

Sigh. I will never get over my interwebz love for Reed. Never. Always fight for the science!

Me too...sigh...

[Janet]

And why does USEA use them as an "official" product without scientific evidence to back their claims?

I could gue$$... and it may be the an$wer to all the question$.

I don't think they look for "scientific evidence" with ANY of the sponsors- that isn't what it is about.

Adequan is thier "Official Joint Therapy Treatment". Nothing against Adequan, but I doubt "scientific eveidence" was part of the process that made them "Official".

[ksbadger]

Funny how the proponent of the Hit Air can't even get the company history correct. It started out as a health & safety device intended to protect Japanese building workers from vertical falls not as a motorbike device.

[phoebetrainer]

I wonder what would have happened to Jock Paget here: http://www.burghley-horse.co.uk/news/story.asp?NID=394 if he had been wearing an airvest?

[ACMEeventing]

I wonder what would have happened to Jock Paget here: http://www.burghley-horse.co.uk/news/story.asp?NID=394 if he had been wearing an airvest?

You mean a Personal Flotation Device?

[canterlope]

Wait... when did they make a rule saying you can't go out on course with an inflated vest??? Looking at the USEF rules I'm not seeing anything.

Vanraf, there isn't a rule saying you can't go out on course with an inflated vest, at least not in the US. Maybe Celtic Cross is talking about some other country.

[phoebetrainer]

You mean a Personal Flotation Device?

He didn't fall off! So an air vest would have deployed - because he was so far out of the saddle - and that may have resulted in him falling off - or having an uncomfortable ride for the rest of the xc.

[JSwan]

The fractures were in the thoracic spine, not cervical. A horse collar would do nothing.

My working theory is that the airvest CAUSED Karen's spine injuries. Actually, my working theory is any rigid vest will induce an axial spinal injury.

By restricting the flexion of the back, all impact forces had to be transferred via an AXIAL load, resulting in the compression and burst fracture. This is based on studies done on high speed impact injuries on flexed and rigid backs. The impact energy MUST go somewhere, and without rigid fixation of the vest to the rider's hip AND shoulders, the energy will travel axially down the spine.

Needless to say, I made my POV known on the fb page.

I'd wondered about the possibility that the air vest had caused the injury. It speaks volumes that they deleted your comment.

[celtic_cross]

Hahaha! I'm not a Hit Air rep! Just have studied the two vests and compared the similarities and differences.

Ask any TD if they'll let you ride with an inflated vest. The answer is NO. How could you do so safely anyway? Why would you WANT to?

[Sannois]

I have only seen these vests on Upper level riders, they seem to be quite the fad. I am assuming the riders wearing them are being sponsored by those companies?
Even if I go back to eventing, I cannot see wearing anything but my Tip. Like Lynn and others have said, show me the data and research that proves they are so much better .