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  1. #1
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    Mar. 14, 2010
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    Default New puppy breathing fast and grunting UPDATE!

    First of all, want to say HOW EXCITED I AM that we got a new puppy!!!!!

    Some friends of ours wanted to know where we got the 2 Llewellyn Setters we have now. So of course we offered to take them to the breeder to look at pups. They ended up falling in love with an 8 week old Brittany, and we fell in love with a shy, timid 3.5 month Llewellyn. Left the breeder, and told him we would think about it and call him. I texted my friends about an hour later to let her know we were going to pick up our puppy. She told me to go ahead and pick hers up too, while we were there.

    We got the pups and they are AMAZING. So smart. We left our pup in his crate from 7:00am to 3:00pm today, and he only had one small pee spot. Everytime I let him out (OFTEN!), he pees and/or poops within a few minutes. Hasnt had any accidents in the house. He's already starting to recognize his name, and is coming out of his shell.

    We named him Hank, mostly because that's the only name we both liked, and also because his grandfather's name is Huntin Hank (or something like that--his papers will be here soon!)

    Pics here: http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php...type=1&theater (hopefully that works--if not, friend me!)

    Anywho, this puppy GRUNTS like crazy!!! Anytime you pick him up, give him belly rubs, etc etc, he grunts. Loud. He also seems to breathing very fast. Is this normal?!
    He had goopy eyes (lived in an outdoor, but covered and clean kennel), and he was also covered in seed ticks. He is up to date on all puppy shots, just needs his rabies shot done.

    Thanks for any info. I'm in LOFF with him already. This is the first puppy i've been responsible for, so bear with me and my silly questions!!
    Last edited by AliCat518; Oct. 15, 2012 at 09:51 PM.
    Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
    White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

    Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada.
    Posts
    6,340

    Default

    Eating, drinking normally?
    Any diarrhea or vomiting?

    Grunting can be normal for a puppy, but fast breathing + grunting may not be. Very subjective, as these can be normal OR abnormal behaviours based on severity. I'd say if you are worried better take him in for an exam. If you are not concerned, monitor him at home.

    Any actual respiratory distress and pup needs to go into clinic ASAP. Any anorexia, diarrhea, vomit, coughing or lethargy and the pup should also see the vet sooner rather than later. Puppies can go downhill very fast.

    Goopy eyes and ticks doesnt sound like a responsibe breeder to me. I would certainly keep the puppy isolated from any other dogs until he has been cleared for parvo and other infectious diseases (by all puppy shots, meaning he had his initial puppy shots, or all three 8, 12 and 16 weeks?).

    Good luck, and hopefully its just normal puppy noises

    Congrats on the new addition, couldnt see pics though



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2010
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    Earlysville, Virginia
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    Im not too worried. He is eating with gusto, peeing and pooping normally. He has definitely had his 8 and 12 week shots, he'll be due for his 16 week shots in 2 weeks.

    He plays like crazy and seems happy and relaxed here. He's currently napping and snoring on my lap. (Although he thinks my laptop is a chew toy. yikes).

    The breeder is a wonderful man, knows his stuff, and loves his dogs, but I do have reservations. To ME (and I do NOT know a lot about dog breeding), I think he has too many dogs (200 plus), who all live in outdoor (at least half covered, all with dog houses) kennels. The kennels are always very clean and they have fresh water. EVERY dog is in good weight and taken out to exercise and hunt regularly. He breeds bird hunting dogs primarily, and seems kind of back country and old school. I was a bit taken aback that the puppy had so many ticks. My SO has bought 3 (now 4) dogs from this man, and SO's parents have bought two. All of these dogs have been the smartest, and most well behaved dogs i've ever met. I swear they seem to understand a lot of english.
    Regardless, I love the puppy. I'm thrilled we got him out of the kennel, and that he has his own couch now. We will be taking him to the vet in 2 weeks for a check up and his next shots. And of course i'll keep a close eye on him until then. I'm known for being a bit paranoid and heading to the vet just for my peace of mind. Thank you for your thoughts.
    Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
    White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

    Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2010
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    Default

    You bought a tick infested puppy with an infected eye from a backyard breeder with 200 dogs that are all kept outside (including the young puppies)?

    If you were "thrilled to get him out of the kennel" then why would you support that breeder with your money and recommend that a friend consider a puppy?



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
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    Breathing very fast and covered in ticks immediately makes ME think severely anemic. Perhaps life-threateningly so.

    I would be quite concerned, were I you.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2008
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    4,536

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    get him to your vet with the information you've given us. He might be ok, but those ticks + where you live could have given him a tick borne disease and that can cause all sorts of trouble.

    do you have any other dogs in the house with him and did you get him on tick/flea meds immediately?



  7. #7
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    You should take any new animal to your vet for a baseline check up and meet and greet. In this puppy's case it should be done immediately. I hope you aren't in for a surprise when you get there.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2006
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    When my GSD was a small pup, I used to look at him while he was sleeping and think he was breathing awfully fast too. It was nothing abnormal though, hope yours is fine too.
    Kerri



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2000
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    You bought a tick infested puppy with an infected eye from a backyard breeder with 200 dogs that are all kept outside (including the young puppies)?

    If you were "thrilled to get him out of the kennel" then why would you support that breeder with your money and recommend that a friend consider a puppy?
    This ^^^^^^^


    http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff
    \"If you are going through hell, keep going.\" ~Churchill~



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2009
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    OK everyone. I did a double-take myself on the description of the breeder's facility.

    But. . .OP has the puppy home now, as does her friend. Too late in the game to get after her for her choice of breeder. Let's move on. . .

    Yes, I agree it's past time for new puppy to visit the vet as well as the suggestions to quarantine pup away from other dogs. Good luck and yes, I too want to see pictures (can't view the FB page).



  11. #11
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    um OP? that's a PUPPY MILL. Granted, it's not the worst puppy mill ever, but it's still an irresponsible way to be producing and raising puppies.
    You don't want to be giving that man your money. If you have a "return" period you should seriously consider taking your pup back and getting your money back, see below for concerns.
    You need to get your pup to the vet ASAP, not in two weeks.
    also this is of concern:
    a shy, timid 3.5 month Llewellyn
    puppies need to be exposed to the world before age 16 weeks or their minds never develop properly. Kennel-raised puppies in particular are notorious for developing "kennel syndrome" due to the lack of early exposure to the world. This man had over 200 dogs, and there is no way he was able to properly socialize each puppy to people or the many things puppies need to experience early in life in order to grow up well-adjusted. At age 3.5 months, your pup is so close to the critical cut-off age that you probably will be unable to overcome the lack of early socialization. The fact that you describe the pup as shy and timid suggests the pup is already exhibiting symptoms of lack of socialization.

    AFTER you get the pup cleared by the vet, I suggest you immediately seek professional help in getting this pup socialized and to help overcome the lack of early socialization. Find a behaviorist and ask about kennel syndrome.



  12. #12
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    Jan. 25, 2009
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    When I get a new puppy, I visit the vet right away just to get the puppy weighed and a basic check up. I would suggest taking the puppy in right away. I doubt it will set you back too much and you'll be able to make sure he doesn't need anything more. Good luck with the puppy. If he is a little shy right now, have you checked out some basic puppy classes? That will get you a chance to get him around some vaccinated pups and dog friendly people to get him more social.



  13. #13
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    Sep. 5, 2005
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    Mass.
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    Worms. Possibly even heartworm.

    Yes, it is a backyard breeder. A bad one. Not sure how or why you're trying to fool yourself, but please get the puppy medical attention.
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  14. #14
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    I don't think it is possible for a dog that young to have heartworm, luckily. Definitely take a stool sample to the vet, though (or I would).



  15. #15
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    No point bashing the OP for buying from a backyard breeder/puppy mill now. It is what it is. The puppy needs a vet NOW however. That is the only part of the equation you have the power to change right now as you can't change the past.



  16. #16
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    Jun. 15, 2010
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    OP needs a reality check. She keeps going back to the same backyard breeder and getting dogs that are treated poorly. An under-socialized, tick-covered, most likely worm infested, puppy is NOT NORMAL. The second most recent purchase was a 3 year old that the breeder "begged" them to take. The OP herself said the dog was "apparently not treated in the best way." Why did you go back??

    A Llewellyn Setter is just a english setter. I am sure that there are better options in your area for future dogs. I'd bet a pretty penny that this is the guy you are extolling as being so "wonderful": http://www.londereekennels.com/index.html

    200 dogs, 5 different breeds, all kept outside...sure sounds wonderful to me.



  17. #17
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    Sep. 5, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey09 View Post
    I don't think it is possible for a dog that young to have heartworm, luckily. Definitely take a stool sample to the vet, though (or I would).

    Well, I hope not. But the wretched animal has lived outside its entire life and was entirely tick-infested, so I expect it was being eaten alive by mosquitoes at the same time. Awful. Oh, and of course, there is Ehrlichiosis, Lyme disease, and all sorts of other fun tick-borne illnesses the poor thing could have.
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  18. #18
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    Mar. 14, 2010
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    Gracelikerain, I had never gotten a dog from this breeder. My SO has gotten 3. I had never been to the breeders farm. When I got there, I was not impressed with the facilities, but all the dogs were in good weight with fresh water and clean kennels. I've literally never been to a breeders before, but his place was cleaner than the SPCAs I've gotten all my dogs from. I wish it had been indoors, but I can't change that now. Pups eyes are all cleared up now, so hopefully they were just eye boogers.

    We fell in love with the pup, so we got him. What's done is done. We have a vet appt set up and puppy will be seen soon. Thank you for all of the advice. Puppy is very energetic now, no longer shy and timid at all. He runs up to us, and plays with us every day. Hes currently sleeping with his head in my lap.

    I'll update this after the appointment. Hopefully all is well. If not, the breeder does guarantee the health of his dogs, in which case we could bring puppy back of we chose to, and get a full refund.
    Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
    White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

    Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.



  19. #19
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Seed ticks are deer ticks. Keep an eye on that puppy and continue testing for Lyme disease and other tick borne diseases. Poor little guy.

    And OP, decent breeders do not have dogs covered in ticks. Stop trying to rationalize. You have the puppy, he now has a good home, that's a plus. If you decide not to keep the poor little guy, do him a favor and donate him to a rescue. Would you really send him back to a puppy mill?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  20. #20
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    she should send him back to the mill and demand her money back. It sounds horrible, yes, but every time someone buys a puppy from those places it causes more dogs to suffer. You aren't "rescuing" one puppy, you're dooming hundreds of other puppies to be born and suffer because you supported the place with your money and actions. Most of the puppies born in that place will probably end up being PTS before reaching maturity, since puppy mill purchases tend to be acquired on a whim as pups and then dumped into the shelter system around age 6 to 8 months.

    I had never been to the breeders farm. When I got there, I was not impressed with the facilities, but all the dogs were in good weight with fresh water and clean kennels. I've literally never been to a breeders before, but his place was cleaner than the SPCAs I've gotten all my dogs from. I wish it had been indoors, but I can't change that now.
    well, the real problem isn't the cleanliness or the outdoorness- it's the size of the place.
    A puppy mill, by definition, is a commercial breeding facility that produces large quantities of puppies to sell for a profit. This kind of "farm", if well-run, is a fine way to produce, say, meat pigs, but not dogs. By the nature of dogs, each puppy requires rather extensive individual attention from humans during the early formative weeks. If this attention is not provided, it's difficult to impossible for the puppy to mature into a well-adjusted adult. Therefore any large dog breeding facility, no matter how clean or well-fed the dogs are, is by its very nature, abusive. Some puppy mills are incredibly poorly run and heap abuse after abuse on the dogs; from your description, yours doesn't appear to do so, but regardless, the mere size of the facility results in unavoidable abuse.
    Note the ticks on your puppy- if the puppy had gotten any individual attention at all, someone would have noticed them.
    If you go to a REAL breeder's facility, generally you'll notice it looks just like any household- there aren't excessive numbers of dogs, there usually aren't kennels, the dogs are all part of the household, the pups are raised with plenty of individual attention, and you can't just walk in and select a pup from an assortment that are available. One really good way to screen out bad breeders is to simply ask how many litters they have per year- anyone who breeds more than three litters per year is generally not someone you want to get a dog from. I'd be quite suspicious of anyone who breeds more than one litter per year; most of the better breeders only breed one litter every two or three years. I'd also be suspicious of anyone who actually keeps more than ten dogs on the property.

    Another serious problem with people who breed lots of litters is there is no way they can "track" the offspring to make sure their breeding stock has excellent genetics. If you breed one litter every three years, you can check up on the pups and make sure they all matured into lovely, mentally and physically healthy specimens (or not), and thus choose wisely for the parents for the next litter; but if you breed ten litters a year, how can you possibly do that? And, if your breeding stock lives in kennels all the time rather than in the house with the family, you can't test their temperaments to be sure they would make fine family dogs.
    even assuming this place is producing working bird dogs who would be expected to never be pets and to live life-long in kennels, there's no way they can be tracking all of their pups to see which are hunting well and which are not, to cull the breeding stock; and english setters are prone to various genetic disorders like hip dysplasia and deafness and some eye diseases that they'd need to track the pups and see if they are healthy or not, again in order to cull the breeding stock. So bottom line you are really taking a gamble on physical health, and are almost assured of poor mental health, when you buy a puppy mill puppy.
    But of course the real problem is you supported the place when you bought the pup. The only way to stop these poor breeding practices that generate so much misery (human and canine) is to stop buying from them.
    ask anyone who has had to PTS their pup after it displayed poor temperament/socialization and bit some children- utter misery, totally avoidable. Ask anyone who has suffered through treating a dog for a genetic illness- utter misery, totally avoidable.



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