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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
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    1,290

    Default Too Good to be True?

    Piddling around on craigslist (yeah, yeah I know) and came across this gem:

    http://dayton.craigslist.org/grd/3065202966.html

    Now enrolling; HOrse lovers! (Indiana)
    Date: 2012-06-08, 12:24PM EDT
    Reply to: hp4c7-3065202966@sale.craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
    Want to learn more about horses? Do you really understand what your horse is trying to tell you? Do you want to increase your horse's stride and be more competative? Then this class is for you! We are now enrolling our 4 day hands on horses DOUBLE certification class. This class will teach and certify you in Equine Sports Massage Therapy & Rehabilation Therapy. Upon completion of this 4 day class, and passing required testing; you will be certified and better understand what causes bad behavior in horses. You will learn:
    *Understanding equine behavior
    *EQuine muscles & functions
    *Locating equine muscle & skeletal issues
    *Proper equine massage strokes & sequence
    *Proper equine client charting
    *Basics of saddle fitting
    *Equine Therapies
    *Marketing
    *And much more!

    All this at an affordable price of only $900! That is 1/3 less than our competitors! YOur class fees cover: certification, books, DVD, and lunch daily!

    We have affordable monthly payment plans available! Several dates and locations available. We offer ONe on ONe classes that fit your schedule, at no extra charge!

    For more information, to enroll, or website information, please email or contact us via telephone;

    2 six 0 - seven 0 one - 5 six 8 three.
    --------------------------------------

    Is ANYONE daft enough to think that four days and $900 is all it takes to learn Equine Massage Therapy and Sports Rehabilitation?!?!

    Or am I the daft one for thinking it's a little more complicated than that?!?!

    Call me crazy but I'll be damned of I'd let anyone work on my horse that got their "double certification" from a four day course they found on craigslist!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2006
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    739

    Default

    Oy. I hope this isn't who I think it is. But it probably is. And I'm sure the class will be full. Blargh.
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
    Posts
    1,290

    Default

    Who is it? I'm curious! Sounds like drama could be involved with your cryptic tone...I luvs me some good drama.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2000
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    Out of the loop
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    Default

    OP, there are a number of short massage courses out there. Some even shorter than that. One of the biggest (in terms of number of students through) is only 5 days. They are legitimate in that the students will learn something about massage.

    But your concerns are right on. These courses are good introductions; I went through a 5-day course myself and it was enough to make me certain this was something I was interested in pursuing. Unfortunately, the teachers of these shorter courses issue "certifications" and some graduates genuinely believe this qualifies them to competently massage horses as professionals.

    What I've learned from the longer course I eventually took, not to mention CE over the years, makes that more and more apparent! There are schools based on human massage training out there, and you want to look for a therapist who has graduated from one of these.

    If you are interested in learning some techniques to safely and effectively apply to your own horses, and/or to see if massage is something you'd like to pursue, these short courses can fill the bill. However, there are other owner-focused courses by the better schools that will do the same and cost a third or less of the price tag on the ad you posted.
    Equinox Equine Massage

    In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
    -Albert Camus



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
    Posts
    1,290

    Default

    I think what really set off the red flags for me was the "double certification" and the fact participants will learn "marketing". Sounds an awful lot like they are saying once you complete this 4 day wonder course you'll be ready to hang a shingle and "market" yourself to clients. Also toss in the "Rehabilitation Therapy"? Wonder what that involves.

    I too took an equine massage course (weekend-long). It was a good time, I really enjoyed it. The person who came out and taught it came with that barn's vet's blessing, all us participants were told upfront this was an educational opportunity, we weren't going to learn how to be "fixing" horses and it wouldn't be arming us with the knowledge to go out and participate in a professional capacity. It focused on light massage for our horses after workouts and how to identify potential problem areas that might need the attention of more skilled hands.

    This just sounds shady to me. I'm morbidly curious as to what is being taught but I sure as heck aren't $900-curious!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2000
    Location
    Out of the loop
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    Default

    GG, sounds like you got to participate in a good owner's course!

    Unfortunately, yes, even though these short courses are not adequate to train a professional, they tell their students they will be ready to open shop upon graduation. Maybe they really believe that; the instructors will certainly swear five ways to Sunday that their courses are as good as any other.

    Several have "certifications" to "associations" that comprise graduates of that particular school. It's sketchy, to be sure! But I honestly don't know if the operators of these short courses really even realize how out in left field they are as far as training standards. Some genuinely seem to believe that teaching a massage routine over a few days is the equivalent of spending 6 months to a year in a formal school that includes anatomy and physiology theory, externships, work with vets, chiros and farriers, and hours upon hours of supervised practice.

    And equally unfortunately, yes, there are plenty of people out there daft enough to believe that a few days of instruction qualifies them as a professional.

    Several states are starting to adopt an exam by one of the national voluntary oversight organizations and require that animal massage therapists "sit boards" for certification to work in those states. I hope that all states go to this system (again, just like human therapists)! It would eliminate less-qualified "professionals" and strengthen animal massage therapy overall.
    Equinox Equine Massage

    In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
    -Albert Camus



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
    Posts
    1,290

    Default

    Yeah, the one I did was billed as an owner's course I believe. It's been about 8 years since I went to it so I'm fuzzy on the exact details but I still have the little soft rubber massage-thingy I bought that the instructor was peddling and my horse has NEVER gotten tired of me using it. It was a pretty fun experience and I actually learned took a lot away from it considering it was just a little two-day thing. I remember the woman giving her background as far as training/schooling and it was a pretty impressive list. She also took the time to lecture us on the perils of trying to do deep tissue massage without the proper know-how, DIY chiro work (there was some guy making the rounds in our area at that time doing one day courses to teach people how to adjust their horses by themselves, I think that's what prompted the lecture) and such.

    I'll have to keep an eye out on my local CL for an influx of "sports massage/rehabilitation therapists" in the near future.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
    Location
    The rocky part of KY
    Posts
    8,812

    Default

    DH did a martial arts related human massage course back in the '80's and it took MONTHS. This seems short and rather expensive for the time.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2008
    Location
    Deschapelles, Haiti
    Posts
    2,280

    Default

    I took a 5-day trimming course from Patti Stiller last year. I remember her telling us all, Don't dare hang out a shingle and claim I certified you as fit to start charging for trims, I might just come hunt you down.' The only paper she gave us stated that we had completed the 5 day course, and served mostly for those of us who needed to prove to our bosses/maybe the IRS that we hadn't skipped out on work related training .
    HAS provides hospital care to 340,000 people in Haiti's Artibonite Valley 24/7/365/earthquake/cholera/whatever.
    www.hashaiti.org blog:http://hashaiti.org/blog



  10. #10

    Default

    The person who posted this is a prior student of mine-after just 6 weeks of experience-and against my advice, she started her school---using MY Therapies that I teach in my class. Copyright material from my school. I cannot believe that she doesn't post anything on her site, that is of value to her credentials. NO NAMES of schools she 'supposedly' went to -but she has some marketing experience-no name of where she learned the Equine Massage-yet people go to her blindly.
    The Therapies work on working the horse correctly to build correct muscle. I have helped horses with EPM, arthritis, cold and sway back to turn around and get better-and many of my students have also. I've helped several EPM horses become rideable again, that the owners were told, just throw them in the field and get another one to ride.
    Connie Bultemeier is her name, and now she is also-under the radar-teaching the 'equine adjusting'...most likely again, from taking a course, and then calling it 'hers'. Just as she did with mine.
    She is NOT Certified to teach anything she's teaching-because it's everything i taught her! The arrogance of this woman is amazing.
    Yes...I teach a 4 day course-It's ALL HANDS ON-that's how I can do it, I have pre class study guides for the muscles/functions and a Level 1 Biomechanics Class-taught by Dr. Nancy Nicholson-author of 'Biomechanics of the Dressage Horse and Rider'. If my course was not teaching people anything-or a 'useless' 4 day course...do you really think that Dr. Nicholson would be putting her name on it with me? She has helped create some of the therapies, that are easy to do and easy fixes for alot of problems. I don't teach adjusting/chiro-it's against the law to teach or do it if you're not a DVM/DC in most states.
    I have 12yrs experience in the field..also working alongside Dr. Mark Haverkos since 1997-learning from him, how to find and feel for spasms, misalignments in the skeletal system, etc...and this is what I teach in my class. The basic fundamentals that are needed to go out and do this. I teach my students things it took me years to figure out-like...'what causes the horse to be sore' in certain areas! What to look for, basics of saddle fit, correct riding posture/basics in riding/and of course Biomechanics taught by Dr. Nicholson.
    And Yes, I have packed all this in a 4 day course...because I have no fillers-nothing that you sit there and think...I already knew this!
    After the class, you have DVD that is step by step so you can go home and watch it the first week or so to be sure you're doing the massage right and in the right place! I also mentor my students as long as they need me after the class-I've become good friends with many of them! and they keep in touch and let me know how they're doing.
    But you don't have to believe me...go look at my blog with my testimonials and my before/after pics-
    www.midwestnha.wordpress.com
    This page has Connie's testimonial on it-once she decided to start her school-she started talking trash about me.
    http://midwestnha.wordpress.com/info-on-classes/
    people ask, why not sue her? Because only the lawyers get the money-and she'll burn herself in this-esp teaching the chiropractic part of it-I'll let the chiropractic/vet board shut her down.
    Equine Massage Therapy Classes and Rehab for Horses
    http://www.midwestnha.wordpress.com[/INDENT]



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 10, 2007
    Location
    down south
    Posts
    5,060

    Default

    Ok. So you do a four day course but you are mad she did your course now is doing here own four day course? What schooling did you have? I see you worked along side a vet. I don't see why you are so mad that she is using "your techniques". Isn't massage therapy just that, just like in humans its all the same and you learn the same and graduate and go massage? Experience will get you farther usually but you have to start somewhere. I'm not saying it's right that someone with 4 days of class should start a business, but I'm a little confused if you offer the class what are you offering for? Does it say you'll get certificates? Does it say your certified? Or does your course say this is furthering horse owners education for their own uses and not to be interchanges with formal schooling for massage therapy?
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 10, 2007
    Location
    down south
    Posts
    5,060

    Default

    **Please check the laws in your state for Equine Massage, if you’re not allowed to work on other peoples horses-this is still a great modality to learn for your own horses**


    This is in your blog so I don't understand why you are mad. She must have checked her state laws and can give a class and work on clients.

    I do see your copyright page
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,354

    Default

    Does it say you'll get certificates? Does it say your certified? Or does your course say this is furthering horse owners education for their own uses and not to be interchanges with formal schooling for massage therapy?
    From her blog:
    I encourage my students to do this on their clients horses, but not to teach it.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  14. #14

    Default

    Because it's my copyright information-the therapies I worked on for years, developing them, proving that they WORK on many ailments, spending my nights off with Dr. Haverkos and with Dr.Nicholson learning from them, so I could put together a great class. I spent 7yrs in the field, learning a better way to massage-working with Dr. Haverkos and having my own massages done, helped me to create something different than what I was taught-which worked better and faster-so yea, a little upset that she's calling MY THERAPIES HER OWN and saying she's CERTIFIED to teach them when she's not. No other school teaches this-and now she thinks she can after doing just ONE rehab? People need to find out the background of people before they go to classes.
    We had a long discussion about this when I found out she basically copied my book and was starting her school.
    Equine Massage Therapy Classes and Rehab for Horses
    http://www.midwestnha.wordpress.com[/INDENT]



  15. #15

    Default

    http://midwestnha.files.wordpress.co...-with-text.jpg

    The above is a picture of a students horse-who had EPM, one of the two in the pic is 20 the other is 9...she was going to retire the 20yr old as a pasture ornament...before she did the rehab therapies on him that I taught her in class-needless to say, he's out of retirement now.
    Many other before/after's here, including a horse hit by a car!:
    http://midwestnha.wordpress.com/about/
    Equine Massage Therapy Classes and Rehab for Horses
    http://www.midwestnha.wordpress.com[/INDENT]



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2010
    Location
    All 'round Canadia
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    3,773

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MassageLady View Post
    Because it's my copyright information-the therapies I worked on for years, developing them, proving that they WORK on many ailments, spending my nights off with Dr. Haverkos and with Dr.Nicholson learning from them, so I could put together a great class. I spent 7yrs in the field, learning a better way to massage-working with Dr. Haverkos and having my own massages done, helped me to create something different than what I was taught-which worked better and faster-so yea, a little upset that she's calling MY THERAPIES HER OWN and saying she's CERTIFIED to teach them when she's not. No other school teaches this-and now she thinks she can after doing just ONE rehab? People need to find out the background of people before they go to classes.
    We had a long discussion about this when I found out she basically copied my book and was starting her school.
    While I don't know how you'd "prove" that yours work, especially better/faster than anything else, without doing (and publishing) studies...look, if you're going to teach something like that, some of the people you teach will take those techniques and teach others. You can't avoid that. If you copyright the techniques (or your specific style of massage) with a name/brand they won't legally be able to use that name/brand, but they will still be able to use the technique.

    For example, I can open my own studio and teach Crossfit, as long as I don't call it "Crossfit".

    As for vets lending their name to something - how many vets "stand behind" cat and dog foods that are mainly made of corn? A vet's blessing is a good thing, but it ain't as fool-proof as you seem to think it is.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 10, 2007
    Location
    down south
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    5,060

    Default

    To me it's like a student under Eric Lamaze or other bnr/bnt and after learning from them going and giving lessons the way they do. I see no difference in the situations.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  18. #18

    Default

    I think that if you put together a course and say in four days you can boil down seven years' of experience such that people will be competent to go out and rehab other horses, you should expect people to do what this student did and start teaching themselves, with little other experience behind them.

    The course itself sets up the expectation that the timeframe to gain knowledge/experience can be unreasonably compressed without harm or gaps to students/horses.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
    Posts
    1,290

    Default

    Well I'm the OP, and I still stand by my original statement that there is no way in hell I'd let someone with just a four day course under their belt work on my horse. I don't care what doctor stands behind the methods or what the fancy certificate says, a person just can't learn it all in four days.

    MassageLady, is this you?
    http://dayton.craigslist.org/grd/3288595025.html



  20. #20

    Default

    Until you have had me work on your horse, or my students, you really shouldn't judge them, because we do great work.
    Obviously, nobody here has had anything of value stolen from them-this is something that is valuable to me, and it's very sad that people feel that it's ok for someone to do this.
    It's sad that you think this way-and yes, It's been proven on many horses, multiple times.
    It's obvious that nobody here cares that bad info is being put out there by someone that thinks they can do this. I'm done here, I wish you all the best with your horses.
    Just thought I'd give you correct information-apparently nobody cares about that anymore. And we wonder why the industry is the way it is.
    Equine Massage Therapy Classes and Rehab for Horses
    http://www.midwestnha.wordpress.com[/INDENT]



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