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  1. #41
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    For me its not the sitting or even the strength/power necessary for the Mediums---its more the suppleness and finite aiding of my horse that allows the mediums to happen and the back to remain up and supple/swinging and the Collection to remain free of tension. It seems a very fine line to be walking--but I remain hopeful that we will make the jump up either this fall or early spring.

    I will be adding more fitness training time based on comments from this thread and cant help but wonder where does the 7 minutes that was mentioned come from?



  2. #42
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    Aug. 25, 2012
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    Wow. It sounds like I am in some good company!! You guys are inspiring.

    Bluehof I can relate to so much!
    ......would you share any of those videos either via PM or public? I'd love to see.

    HCF WOW that's exactly what I feel I need right now unfortunately my trainer is booked solid and 2 lessons a week just isn't happening. I did start up with another trainer who is def on board with first trainer and it does seem to be making progress faster.

    Here's another question for you all.

    Are you at all intimidated by the collected power? I mean the lifting of the shoulders while keeping the hind end active? There is a lot of horse in there and when I tap into that power, I admit I'm a little taken back. Of course I have had a few baby rears and a few leaps during transitions but man containing all that power between your legs is pretty impressive stuff. Stuff I've never felt before and didn't realize how much power it really was.



  3. #43
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    that power is awesome! it makes riding so much fun! but i agree - it can be a bit intimidating - especially if you are riding a horse who is just tapping into this for the first time and doesn't yet know how to deal with it/control it - they will spook/leap/buck because it can be overwhelming for them..... but you (and your horse) will get used to it - its addicting !



  4. #44
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    Mar. 11, 2006
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    Arizona
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    Are you at all intimidated by the collected power?

    Honestly no; but, then I ride smaller horses, as in Welsh Cobs. I've taken a handful through second level. I currently have two who are competing at second level with one most likely moving up to third over the winter. I find that some tackle/handle second level much better than others and it's not just about conformation/natural ability. I have one that had a true to pony, "you can't make me attitude" but he's now signing up to the idea of engagement.

    Just finished a schooling show yesterday that was to be a practice run before an upcoming recognized show. Granted it was just a schooling show but I was pleased with our 68% at 2nd 3. Love the lift off feeling you get and rising up through the withers; but, as you can see there's not much to be intimidated about with this one

    http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSC_0087.jpg

    http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSC_0041.jpg

    http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/DSC_0018.jpg
    Ranch of Last Resort
    www.annwylid.com



  5. #45
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    The stinker is looking great! good job!!!!!



  6. #46
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    Yeah, I can relate.. My lesson last night:

    Trainer: Half halt!

    MORE half halt-- AGAIN! BIGGER HALF HALT!

    Trainer: More outside rein!

    (ME: more then THIS?)

    Everything is faster/more/quicker....

    Ugh.

    But I love it!



  7. #47
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    Mar. 11, 2006
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    Arizona
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    Thanks mbm as you know he's my "special" project. I've had 3 riding instructors to date who just scratch their heads and wonder why I bother.........can't explain it. Just need to try with him and see just how far I can convince him to go. Of course then I get on my stallion and second level is actually rather easy for him, just needs more strength. So I get why they feel I shouldn't bother but yesterday's show demonstrated at least for me why I do.
    Ranch of Last Resort
    www.annwylid.com



  8. #48
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    Jul. 25, 2007
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    Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by SendenHorse View Post
    Yeah, I can relate.. My lesson last night:

    Trainer: Half halt!

    MORE half halt-- AGAIN! BIGGER HALF HALT!

    Trainer: More outside rein!

    (ME: more then THIS?)

    Everything is faster/more/quicker....

    Ugh.

    But I love it!
    LOL my lessons too! Thanks OP for starting this thread! It it so nice to be able to commiserate and share our common experiences.



  9. #49
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    Aug. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    that power is awesome! it makes riding so much fun! but i agree - it can be a bit intimidating - especially if you are riding a horse who is just tapping into this for the first time and doesn't yet know how to deal with it/control it - they will spook/leap/buck because it can be overwhelming for them..... but you (and your horse) will get used to it - its addicting !


    This!!! This is where I am. It's a little unnerving. I wish I had a tiny horse to learn on. lol My guy is 17h and big. He gets confused and tries but he's just not sure what I'm asking. I have 100% confidence that we will get it but in the meantime I need to hang on. : )

    Exvet: Your guy is adorable!! Super cute!!


    My most memorable comment from my lesson: (said screaming LOL) "How are you going to make it to FEI when your hind end is as slow as molasses?"



  10. #50
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    Aug. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLR1 View Post
    Thanks OP for starting this thread! It it so nice to be able to commiserate and share our common experiences.
    I agree. I feel like I'm all lone out there sometimes. Visions of western pleasure dancing in my head. lol Thank God I'm no quitter!!!



  11. #51
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    Oct. 13, 2006
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    The horse should not intimidate you when moving up?? The movements cannot be done with too much "power" if the horse is not supple and obedient.

    For me this is the part where they seem to be more able and more soft so that I CAN ask for the lengthening without it bursting over into tension.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    The horse should not intimidate you when moving up?? The movements cannot be done with too much "power" if the horse is not supple and obedient.
    It's not that he's intimidating me personally it's the tapping into the power that's intimidating. Asking him to sit and lift compared to his first level working trot/canter is a very different feeling for someone who's never felt it before.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurPlexed View Post
    Here's another question for you all.

    Are you at all intimidated by the collected power? I mean the lifting of the shoulders while keeping the hind end active? There is a lot of horse in there and when I tap into that power, I admit I'm a little taken back. Of course I have had a few baby rears and a few leaps during transitions but man containing all that power between your legs is pretty impressive stuff. Stuff I've never felt before and didn't realize how much power it really was.
    I looooooooove it.

    It means I'm doing things right, and it means my horse is ON. There are variations on it, and in his current condition (which is due to MY condition and inability to work him enough until the back heals) we'll get moments of power but he can't really hold it. When he gets strong enough to hold that power for a full 45-1hr ride, it's AWESOME. He can't have the full power without being focused, straight, and relaxed in his body. Those facts mean despite having greater available power, he's more with me mentally and behaves better. The times he can be intimidating are when he's not behaving well enough/relaxed enough to offer me that constant power, and instead he might just use it to blast off in an unannounced direction at any instant.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  14. #54
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    If you go look at some of the higher scoring second level test done by ammy's you can see the horses for the most part are very quiet and relaxed. This level does not need vein bursting energy but rather the horse learning they can use themselves more without falling back on tension.

    Just make sure your idea of power is not the horse actually being tense or strong making it very difficult to teach the proper transitions within the gait.

    The back should begin to feel so loose and you should be able to put the leg on at any time to lengthen without the neck rising and the horse basically shooting to the galaxy and covering no ground.

    Too much running is done at this level in the name of "mediums" because they think it has to be so explosive when really that is the opposite of what the horse should learn here.

    Yes energy, but you must be able to supple and get the release again and again whenever you ask.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  15. #55
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    i just want to point out - that training is very different than riding a trained horse. the path is not the goal and expecting perfection when a horse is learning is really detrimental....

    so while the goal is powerful unconstraint - it isnt like that to get there the horse will get tense - it will rush, it will spook , fall out of rhythm etc. etc. the rider needs to realize that this ia all NORMAL and to just keep riding....

    and some day perhaps it will be perfect lol!

    (and fwiw, that is the difference, i think between those that have trained it and those that haven't - knowing that the journey is different than the goal)



  16. #56
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    Like Exvet I really love when my guy's balance shifts to and you can feel his wither rising up and he becomes light in the hand and mobile, elastic and powerful. The only thing cooler is when that all of that energy recycles and he starts 'bouncing back off the bit" and if all flows naturally. I think he enjoys this too as he becomes more exuberant/expressive/joyful in his work.

    As I mentioned before--the hardest part for me is maintaining a supple seat/refined aides, keeping myself organized enough to stay in sync/balance over him. I think because he is not a big horse with giant gaits he is almost less forgiving of my mistakes. I have to really "ride up" if I want his best work.To me it feels like I have to ride in the same way I expect him to go!
    Last edited by goodpony; Oct. 8, 2012 at 12:48 PM.



  17. #57
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    mbm: Again this is where I am. Of course there is going to be tension and loss of rhythm maybe even a buck or rear. It's a learning process. I'm asking questions that he doesn't know the answer to. He's giving me 20 answers in search of the correct one. He's not being nasty. He's trying to figure out what I want. When he gets it it's pretty amazing stuff. Going through his 20 answers can be a little intimidating to the rider who's never experienced all of that power. At TL and First we concentrate on forward and round. Totally different at 2nd IMO. I'm really looking forward to my horse being able to sustain it longer and easier. I think then I will be able to enjoy the power and not feel so intimidated by it. Right now he's not 100% confirmed so the energy might come out in any direction LOL.

    In First level we did our lengthenings by gathering up energy in our working trot and kicked kicked kicked across the diagonal. Yesterday in my lesson we rode collected trot through the corner and for the medium she had me actually take my legs off and just let him go. It was pretty amazing to me that it worked. He just powered out and across no kicking required. This for me was something totally new.



  18. #58
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    I will stand by my opinion that it should be very rare to deal with this rushing/spooking/bucking/rearing/loss of rhythm while they learn collection.

    It only should happen if there is some good reason (outside of the learning process) and you cannot teach anything if they have tension from these little outburst.

    Front to back riding will cause horses to break out of the frame to avoid the work. You have to find a better way to introduce it.

    If you give excuses for it then there will be holes later IMO
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  19. #59
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    "It only should happen if there is some good reason (outside of the learning process) and you cannot teach anything if they have tension from these little outburst."

    Good reason: Rider is green/horse is green. Rider held to long horse did baby rear. This happened twice in one ride and once in another. The buck came from another rider error while correcting the horse for slipping behind my leg.


    "Front to back riding will cause horses to break out of the frame to avoid the work. You have to find a better way to introduce it."

    Yes. It was rider error trying to learn a better way to introduce it. That's the best I can do other than to have my coach get on and do the work for me.



  20. #60
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    Wait? So this horse is not confirmed 1st level?

    I dunno how green they should be trying to learn collection from an ammy so we are on different wave lengths.

    Trainers can get away with this because of tact and timing but as an ammy I wouldnt say its the best idea
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



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