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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 3, 2005
    Location
    BC, Canada - PNW
    Posts
    660

    Default Would you buy...

    A horse with a "hunter" (outside leg) canter cue?

    Otherwise, she fits my bill. She's an Azteca, 14.2h, 9yo, stocky build (currently also FAT build!), great brain, trail safe, barefoot, easy keeper. She is also kid safe, and has recently just been plucking around 2-3 days a week with a 10yo kid.

    I gave her a test ride last night, and while she doesn't have the fitness or the experience, by the end of the ride she was riding nicely forward into my hand in a half decent frame. At the walk, she also leg yielded nicely and figured out shoulder in when I asked, and she bends around the leg. Her walk and trot are so smooth and comfy like riding a couch (so smooth that I figured she'd look awful on video, but she was a better mover than I expected, but not super flashy), but the canter leaves a little (ok, a lot) to be desired, though I had her in no frame whatsoever. I'm sure some muscling up and gaining her balance in side reins on the lunge will improve it.

    My aspirations are safe, easy going, lower level dressage (1st level for sure, hopefully second) and trail safe. If I do a bit of small jumping so I can do 2 phases, then that's even better (and she does jump).

    The only downside is her canter cue being outside leg. I asked inside leg/hip, and she picked up the outside lead while on the rail. I switched cues, and voila, got her leads every time. She seemed quick to learn and willing, and the owner is an acquaintence willling to let me ride her a bit on her property and then do a trial at my barn.

    I won't play with the canter cue while trialing her, of course, because she's not mine to screw up But I am looking to see how she improves each ride, and how she muscles up and slims down a bit in more work.

    Would you retrain a canter cue to a 9yo, who otherwise seems to get it?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Posts
    594

    Default

    I'm no expert but if my aspirations were lower level dressage, 2nd and below, I'd just use the canter cue she already came installed with. That's just what I'd do. She sounds great to me.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2010
    Location
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Posts
    277

    Default

    Retraining a canter cue is not a big deal. Like it takes a ride or 2 if the foundations are there (depending on the horse). But retraining the horse to be balanced properly and responsive to the seat might take a little longer. Of course these things are also fundamentally important to a good canter depart. If you are up to these tasks, don't think twice about the canter cue.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    14,147

    Default

    ...and that's all that's wrong with her? Don't worry about it.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 10, 2007
    Location
    down south
    Posts
    5,060

    Default

    Go for it
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 3, 2005
    Location
    BC, Canada - PNW
    Posts
    660

    Default

    Whoohoo! I like these answers! I otherwise like her after one ride, but I get to ride her a fair bit before I decide and can do trial, so I'm not too worried. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't nuts for thinking about changing up her canter. I will definitely put the time in to develop her muscling and balance, from the walk up, and spend some time on the lunge and get her fitness going. I'm in no rush, I just want to see some improvement over the next week or so, and then I can spend all winter bringing her along.

    Thanks so much

    Maybe I'll get some video to compare our first ride with another!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    5,821

    Default

    I wouldn't think twice about the canter cue. Balance issues and not stellar canter, maybe, but I wouldn't care if you had to ring a bell to ask her to canter - that's easy to train to the cue you want.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 27, 2008
    Posts
    2,385

    Default

    How is a dressage canter cue different from a hunter canter cue?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2007
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    5,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindyg View Post
    How is a dressage canter cue different from a hunter canter cue?
    When I took H/J lessons back in the dark ages, we used an inside leg cue for canter, and almost always cantered from the walk, not the trot.

    As a re-rider many years later, I learned the "outside leg in a windshield-wiper motion" cue, and it's what my mare, and nearly every other horse I've ridden in the past 6 years, knows.

    Some dressage people will say this is incorrect, that canter should come from the seat (a slight push to the inside with the inside seatbone), and maintain that the W-W will mess up later training for flying changes... but I've seen very high level riders -- even at the Olympics -- using the W-W (and the seat, because the W-W will also cause you to give the "correct" seat cue) for one-tempis.... so how can it mess things up that much?

    Current trainer tried to get me to switch to seat-only because of the purported ill effects of the W-W on changes, but once I made it clear that I'm not riding higher than First Level, she was fine with the W-W. We've also made peace over the walk-to-canter transition, which is apparently considered more advanced, because the mare seems to be better at those than trot to canter.
    Last edited by quietann; Oct. 5, 2012 at 09:24 AM.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2011
    Posts
    2,064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindyg View Post
    How is a dressage canter cue different from a hunter canter cue?
    Dressage riders would use inside leg as the outside leg would be controlling the bend, not cueing.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2007
    Location
    Andover, MA
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    5,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ElisLove View Post
    Dressage riders would use inside leg as the outside leg would be controlling the bend, not cueing.
    It is possible to do the windshield wiper and still control the bend with the outside leg. This is one of the few things I have mastered....
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    5,045

    Default

    That's news to me! Even when I was riding Tempi the PSG schoolmaster under my BNT with all her medals the canter cue was outside leg behind the girth.

    Goes to show doesn't it?

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2011
    Posts
    538

    Default

    It tends to be personal preference, really, and that's one of the reasons why riding someone else's GP horse can be a lot more difficult than riding someone else's TL horse. I like the inside leg at the girth/inside seat/outside leg passively back to make sure haunches don't swing out, personally, so you outside-leggers may have some issues convincing my GP horse to canter.

    Many roads to Rome.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
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    5,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cnm161 View Post
    It tends to be personal preference, really, and that's one of the reasons why riding someone else's GP horse can be a lot more difficult than riding someone else's TL horse. I like the inside leg at the girth/inside seat/outside leg passively back to make sure haunches don't swing out, personally, so you outside-leggers may have some issues convincing my GP horse to canter.

    Many roads to Rome.
    Heck, it's up to horse personal preference, too! My TB who is schooling a variety of levels stopped cantering off outside leg when he started to understand haunches in. Inside seatbone is all I have to use most of the time, but inside leg as well if I haven't gotten him in front of my leg yet or he's holding tension.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 27, 2008
    Posts
    2,385

    Default

    Thanks, y'all, for the canter cue discussion. Interesting.

    OP -- hope the purchase works out for you!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 3, 2005
    Location
    BC, Canada - PNW
    Posts
    660

    Default

    Thanks everybody. This particular pony isn't going to work out, but it's still useful information and input.

    Back to the horse shopping. *sigh* Why can't my next perfect partner just materialize?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,538

    Default

    afaik canter aid is stepping into inside stirrup.

    using your o/s leg in a windshield wiper fashion would tend to mess up the straightness on a sensitive horse - you will get haunches flying inwards



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2006
    Posts
    3,368

    Default

    A hunter cue is also inside leg. From GM's book.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2000
    Location
    Chantilly,va.
    Posts
    10,865

    Default OF COURSE1

    OF COURSE1
    Would you retrain a canter cue to a 9yo, who otherwise seems to get it? http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/im...tons/quote.gif
    breeder of Mercury!

    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2006
    Posts
    3,368

    Default

    You can also consider the outside cue as a stepping stone to the inside cue. Sounds like a nice horse.



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