The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2012
    Posts
    202

    Default Crossing Disciplines as an amateur

    if a rider who competes in one discipline as a professional, would they be ineligible to compete as an amateur in another?

    Such as a reiner or eventer, wanted to take a horse in the adult amatuer jumper divisions?

    This questions came to me and I wanted opinions, because I honestly didn't know.
    Given they're not a member of USEF, so they aren't declared either.
    Is it more of a code of ethics or is there a rule which states they're inelgible.
    Would it matter if they were an 'ammy-pro' or made a living riding in their given discipline.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2011
    Posts
    294

    Default

    If they are receiving payment to ride - whether it's western, saddle seat, dressage, eventing etc. - they are by definition a professional in jumper ( and hunter!) land. There are several nuances to the rules, but I interpret the "makes a living riding" to mean they are being paid for swinging a leg over a horse.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2000
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    14,961

    Default

    I seem to remember a discussion on here where someone said USEF did not think that riding racehorses made one a professional. I don't know for a fact if that's correct, but if so, it surprises me.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 19, 1999
    Location
    Averill Park NY and Citra Fl
    Posts
    5,578

    Default

    Better tell that to the many that breeze and gallop and ride in the adults.
    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2008
    Posts
    7,301

    Default

    I believe there is an exception for racehorses. BUT -- I am not aware of any other exceptions for other disciplines.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2011
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fordtraktor View Post
    I believe there is an exception for racehorses. BUT -- I am not aware of any other exceptions for other disciplines.
    This is what I believe to be correct. However, I've never actually bothered to verify it. Perhaps one of the rule mavens can post the actual rule stating this - I've never actually seen it.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    15,904

    Default

    What are the two disciplines? Are they both USEF disciplines? All you need to do to show ammy in a USEF discipline is meet the USEF definition. If, in some other non-USEF discipline you are classified otherwise-- I don't think that makes any difference.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    72

    Default

    I would think if one is a professional Eventer, he or she wouldn't be able to claim ammy status in show jumping, since 'stadium jumping' is part of three day eventing. Otherwise I have no idea.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    15,904

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OGSponymom View Post
    I would think if one is a professional Eventer, he or she wouldn't be able to claim ammy status in show jumping, since 'stadium jumping' is part of three day eventing. Otherwise I have no idea.
    Eventing and hunter/jumpers use the same definition, the USEF definition, don't they? So if you did something to be an eventing pro, that same something you did would automatically make you a hunter pro?!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ccr0009 View Post
    if a rider who competes in one discipline as a professional, would they be ineligible to compete as an amateur in another?

    Such as a reiner or eventer, wanted to take a horse in the adult amatuer jumper divisions?

    This questions came to me and I wanted opinions, because I honestly didn't know.
    Given they're not a member of USEF, so they aren't declared either.
    Is it more of a code of ethics or is there a rule which states they're inelgible.
    Would it matter if they were an 'ammy-pro' or made a living riding in their given discipline.
    If the person meets the USEF definition of a pro (e.g., gets paid for riding, training, or teaching), it does not matter WHAT discipline it is in, they are not a USEF Amateur.

    It does not matter if it is a different USEF discipline, an non-USEF discipline (e.g. exercising race horses), or even a non-discipline, such as being paid to lead trail rides.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    I seem to remember a discussion on here where someone said USEF did not think that riding racehorses made one a professional. I don't know for a fact if that's correct, but if so, it surprises me.
    I do not think that is the case. I think someone was subject to wishfull thinking. But call USEF (they have a special amateur-questions phone and email) to be sure.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    What are the two disciplines? Are they both USEF disciplines? All you need to do to show ammy in a USEF discipline is meet the USEF definition. If, in some other non-USEF discipline you are classified otherwise-- I don't think that makes any difference.
    If you are "paid to ride, train or teach" in ANY context, you are not a USEF amateur.

    If some other discipline defines "Amateur" differently (for instance, I understand AQHA is much stricter, if you catch ride without being paid you would be an AQHA professioan), it would be possible to be a pro in the other discpline (e.g. AQHA) and an Amateur in USEF.

    But you would have to make sure you were not paid to ride, train or teach in the other discipline. If you are paid to ride, teach or train in the AQHA world, you are NOT an amateur in the USEF world.

    Ho
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OGSponymom View Post
    I would think if one is a professional Eventer, he or she wouldn't be able to claim ammy status in show jumping, since 'stadium jumping' is part of three day eventing. Otherwise I have no idea.
    If you are a professional in Eventing (under USEF rules), you are a professional for ALL USEF disciplines.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Eventing and hunter/jumpers use the same definition, the USEF definition, don't they? So if you did something to be an eventing pro, that same something you did would automatically make you a hunter pro?!
    Yes.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  15. #15

    Default

    If the activities would qualify the person as a Pro under USEF rules, they are a Pro -- even if the activities were completed while the person was not a USEF member.

    I got this straight from USEF, in a phone call.

    Note that the rule about activities that define a pro do not stipulate when in the past they had to have happened (only that it is sometime in the past) and say nothing about whether they were done while/while not a USEF member.

    Just if they were done = you are a USEF Pro.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2011
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyVagrant View Post
    If the activities would qualify the person as a Pro under USEF rules, they are a Pro -- even if the activities were completed while the person was not a USEF member.

    I got this straight from USEF, in a phone call.

    Note that the rule about activities that define a pro do not stipulate when in the past they had to have happened (only that it is sometime in the past) and say nothing about whether they were done while/while not a USEF member.

    Just if they were done = you are a USEF Pro.
    Actually it does stipulate something about when they were done in the past - if it has been an entire year since one has committed any actions that deem one a professional, one can be defined as an amateur.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    15,904

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyVagrant View Post
    If the activities would qualify the person as a Pro under USEF rules, they are a Pro -- even if the activities were completed while the person was not a USEF member.

    I got this straight from USEF, in a phone call.

    Note that the rule about activities that define a pro do not stipulate when in the past they had to have happened (only that it is sometime in the past) and say nothing about whether they were done while/while not a USEF member.

    Just if they were done = you are a USEF Pro.
    Unless you sit out.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laughATTACK View Post
    Actually it does stipulate something about when they were done in the past - if it has been an entire year since one has committed any actions that deem one a professional, one can be defined as an amateur.
    Then that has changed since I called, because I specifically asked about that in my situation (three years had passed) and was told I would have to send in the amateur reinstatement fee + letters etc.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Unless you sit out.
    But you have to ACTIVELY sit out. You have to go through the "change from pro to amateur" process, including the application, the fee, and the notarized letters.

    You can't just sign up as a USEF amateur because "I haven't done anything professional in 5 years".

    A few years ago, someone made it to the back of the USEF magazine for professional activities they had done years ago. (I suspect there was more to the story than that, but that was what they could make "stick", and that was what was cited in the back of the magazine.)
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laughATTACK View Post
    Actually it does stipulate something about when they were done in the past - if it has been an entire year since one has committed any actions that deem one a professional, one can be defined as an amateur.
    Only if you go through the formal process for reclassification from Pro to Amateur.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



Similar Threads

  1. Changing disciplines . . .
    By Tiger Horse in forum Off Course
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Jan. 30, 2012, 04:02 PM
  2. 'Switching' disciplines?
    By sschuessler in forum Endurance and Trail Riding
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Sep. 24, 2011, 06:39 PM
  3. Riding Disciplines - Where Do You Fit In?? ;)
    By MargaretW in forum Off Course
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jul. 5, 2009, 01:07 PM
  4. Multiple Disciplines - Can you do it?
    By WB Mom in forum Off Course
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: Mar. 12, 2009, 11:33 PM
  5. Duelling Disciplines
    By Roberta in forum Dressage
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Nov. 22, 2008, 12:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness