[ccr0009]

if a rider who competes in one discipline as a professional, would they be ineligible to compete as an amateur in another?

Such as a reiner or eventer, wanted to take a horse in the adult amatuer jumper divisions?

This questions came to me and I wanted opinions, because I honestly didn't know.
Given they're not a member of USEF, so they aren't declared either.
Is it more of a code of ethics or is there a rule which states they're inelgible.
Would it matter if they were an 'ammy-pro' or made a living riding in their given discipline.

[laughATTACK]

If they are receiving payment to ride - whether it's western, saddle seat, dressage, eventing etc. - they are by definition a professional in jumper ( and hunter!) land. There are several nuances to the rules, but I interpret the "makes a living riding" to mean they are being paid for swinging a leg over a horse.

[MHM]

I seem to remember a discussion on here where someone said USEF did not think that riding racehorses made one a professional. I don't know for a fact if that's correct, but if so, it surprises me.

[Jumphigh83]

Better tell that to the many that breeze and gallop and ride in the adults.

[fordtraktor]

I believe there is an exception for racehorses. BUT -- I am not aware of any other exceptions for other disciplines.

[laughATTACK]

I believe there is an exception for racehorses. BUT -- I am not aware of any other exceptions for other disciplines.

This is what I believe to be correct. However, I've never actually bothered to verify it. Perhaps one of the rule mavens can post the actual rule stating this - I've never actually seen it.

[vxf111]

What are the two disciplines? Are they both USEF disciplines? All you need to do to show ammy in a USEF discipline is meet the USEF definition. If, in some other non-USEF discipline you are classified otherwise-- I don't think that makes any difference.

[OGSponymom]

I would think if one is a professional Eventer, he or she wouldn't be able to claim ammy status in show jumping, since 'stadium jumping' is part of three day eventing. Otherwise I have no idea.

[vxf111]

I would think if one is a professional Eventer, he or she wouldn't be able to claim ammy status in show jumping, since 'stadium jumping' is part of three day eventing. Otherwise I have no idea.

Eventing and hunter/jumpers use the same definition, the USEF definition, don't they? So if you did something to be an eventing pro, that same something you did would automatically make you a hunter pro?!

[Janet]

if a rider who competes in one discipline as a professional, would they be ineligible to compete as an amateur in another?

Such as a reiner or eventer, wanted to take a horse in the adult amatuer jumper divisions?

This questions came to me and I wanted opinions, because I honestly didn't know.
Given they're not a member of USEF, so they aren't declared either.
Is it more of a code of ethics or is there a rule which states they're inelgible.
Would it matter if they were an 'ammy-pro' or made a living riding in their given discipline.

If the person meets the USEF definition of a pro (e.g., gets paid for riding, training, or teaching), it does not matter WHAT discipline it is in, they are not a USEF Amateur.

It does not matter if it is a different USEF discipline, an non-USEF discipline (e.g. exercising race horses), or even a non-discipline, such as being paid to lead trail rides.

[Janet]

I seem to remember a discussion on here where someone said USEF did not think that riding racehorses made one a professional. I don't know for a fact if that's correct, but if so, it surprises me.

I do not think that is the case. I think someone was subject to wishfull thinking. But call USEF (they have a special amateur-questions phone and email) to be sure.

[Janet]

What are the two disciplines? Are they both USEF disciplines? All you need to do to show ammy in a USEF discipline is meet the USEF definition. If, in some other non-USEF discipline you are classified otherwise-- I don't think that makes any difference.

If you are "paid to ride, train or teach" in ANY context, you are not a USEF amateur.

If some other discipline defines "Amateur" differently (for instance, I understand AQHA is much stricter, if you catch ride without being paid you would be an AQHA professioan), it would be possible to be a pro in the other discpline (e.g. AQHA) and an Amateur in USEF.

But you would have to make sure you were not paid to ride, train or teach in the other discipline. If you are paid to ride, teach or train in the AQHA world, you are NOT an amateur in the USEF world.

Ho

[Janet]

I would think if one is a professional Eventer, he or she wouldn't be able to claim ammy status in show jumping, since 'stadium jumping' is part of three day eventing. Otherwise I have no idea.

If you are a professional in Eventing (under USEF rules), you are a professional for ALL USEF disciplines.

[Janet]

Eventing and hunter/jumpers use the same definition, the USEF definition, don't they? So if you did something to be an eventing pro, that same something you did would automatically make you a hunter pro?!

Yes.

[Halt Near X]

If the activities would qualify the person as a Pro under USEF rules, they are a Pro -- even if the activities were completed while the person was not a USEF member.

I got this straight from USEF, in a phone call.

Note that the rule about activities that define a pro do not stipulate when in the past they had to have happened (only that it is sometime in the past) and say nothing about whether they were done while/while not a USEF member.

Just if they were done = you are a USEF Pro.

[laughATTACK]

If the activities would qualify the person as a Pro under USEF rules, they are a Pro -- even if the activities were completed while the person was not a USEF member.

I got this straight from USEF, in a phone call.

Note that the rule about activities that define a pro do not stipulate when in the past they had to have happened (only that it is sometime in the past) and say nothing about whether they were done while/while not a USEF member.

Just if they were done = you are a USEF Pro.

Actually it does stipulate something about when they were done in the past - if it has been an entire year since one has committed any actions that deem one a professional, one can be defined as an amateur.

[vxf111]

If the activities would qualify the person as a Pro under USEF rules, they are a Pro -- even if the activities were completed while the person was not a USEF member.

I got this straight from USEF, in a phone call.

Note that the rule about activities that define a pro do not stipulate when in the past they had to have happened (only that it is sometime in the past) and say nothing about whether they were done while/while not a USEF member.

Just if they were done = you are a USEF Pro.

Unless you sit out.

[Halt Near X]

Actually it does stipulate something about when they were done in the past - if it has been an entire year since one has committed any actions that deem one a professional, one can be defined as an amateur.

Then that has changed since I called, because I specifically asked about that in my situation (three years had passed) and was told I would have to send in the amateur reinstatement fee + letters etc.

[Janet]

Unless you sit out.

But you have to ACTIVELY sit out. You have to go through the "change from pro to amateur" process, including the application, the fee, and the notarized letters.

You can't just sign up as a USEF amateur because "I haven't done anything professional in 5 years".

A few years ago, someone made it to the back of the USEF magazine for professional activities they had done years ago. (I suspect there was more to the story than that, but that was what they could make "stick", and that was what was cited in the back of the magazine.)

[Janet]

Actually it does stipulate something about when they were done in the past - if it has been an entire year since one has committed any actions that deem one a professional, one can be defined as an amateur.

Only if you go through the formal process for reclassification from Pro to Amateur.