[rabicon]

The chains for training at home are heavier than what they are saying. I've been in bl barns when I looked for a twh horse because there are a lot in our area. they are not light weight 16 ounces that are used. Maybe some places don't but all I've seen they are much heavier. That's what gets the higher lift.

[SmartAlex]

None of my non SS trained horses act like that away from home. They were all trained by a professional trainer even my SS trained that was retrained by the same trainer. Even when they were green and I took them away from home for the first time. However NONE are kept in stall either.

Oh mine sure have. Some days I wonder how I end up being attracted to such hot horses. Even if Grey is turned out all day, once I get him under saddle and strike a trot, any thing can (and does) happen. Two weeks ago we were plodding through the cornfield, and he decided that it was still necessary to give a warning bucksnort to the bulldozer working a mile away on the opposite hillside. Too much Yorktown and Attache'!

[hundredacres]

But defenders keep stating something about 8 oz? The chain I used was probably 7-8 ounces.

[SmartAlex]

Out of curiosity tonight, I fastened a lightweight chain around my arab's pastern.. It was loose.....I rode her up and down the driveway and she did NOTHING. She could have cared less........But the plain, lightweight, loose chains didn't do a damned thing.

Some horses don't react to chains at all. The Arab I used to have never even noticed them. But my current ASB, just putting something as innocent as Cavallo boots on him turns him into a freak of nature. For five minutes anyway

[hurleycane]

LOL; "...For five minutes..." Like putting scotch tape on the foot pads of kittens.

[SmartAlex]

LOL; "...For five minutes..." Like putting scotch tape on the foot pads of kittens.

Precisely!
The funniest part was even if I only put the boots on the front hooves, he picks up his hind legs just as high. I ought to try to get a video.

[SmartAlex]

But defenders keep stating something about 8 oz? The chain I used was probably 7-8 ounces.

Well, if it will make everybody happy, I'll try to remember to bring home my collection of chains and rattles tomorrow and weigh each of them. Then we can see exactly how heavy commercially available action devices are.

[cordial]

But defenders keep stating something about 8 oz? The chain I used was probably 7-8 ounces.

You are allowed only a 6-ounce chain in the show ring and yes, the Government vets weigh every single one.

[katarine]

http://www.ehorseequipment.com/brows...&cid=32&page=3

http://bedfordtack.net/shop/index.ph...th=436_377_378

[shakeytails]

Out of curiosity tonight, I fastened a lightweight chain around my arab's pastern.. It was loose.....I rode her up and down the driveway and she did NOTHING. She could have cared less.

There's more to the chains than they are telling us. It;s a load of crap that it causes them to reach, perform or give them rhythm. .

I have an ASB that reacts the same way to chains or stretchies. Guess what? He's not gonna make a SS show horse, ever. He doesn't want to "use his legs" and no amount of training will make him, so why try? It's just his nature- he's the most laid back 3 yo ASB I've ever met. I went out to fetch him from outside the other night- in the dark, in a nasty thunderstorm, and I forgot to grab a lead. I just opened the gate, grabbed his halter and he led in like an old cow pony. I'm trying to find a home for him as a lower-level sport horse. Others, well, you put chains on and they're acting like they're ready for Louisville. They'll set back, lift that head, engage that hind end and act even prouder of themselves than they already did. Same exact chains, nothing done differently, just a different mindset. Chains just enhance what the horse already has.

A long time ago I had an old broodmare, a former 3-gaited horse long before I owned her. I was walking up to the barn and had a pair of stretchies in my hand. She was loose in the barn lot and I had to walk past her to get to the barn. She saw those stretchies and did a little snort and blow and trotted up to me with a look that said "Me too!". Just to see if I understood I put them on the old girl. As soon as I put them on and stepped back she once again turned into a show horse, trotting around the barn yard with her tail up over her back showing off and acting like she was a young pup and game for anything! After a few minutes of enjoying her antics, I had to ask her to stop so I could take them off. She acted almost disappointed when I removed them. I wish I had a video!

[SmartAlex]

Well written Shakeytails.

Some horses view those stretchies as terrific toys. It's sort of like "hey look I have magic legs!" And then others, put anything on their legs and they mysteriously lose the ability to bend at the knee.

Then there are the old campaigners who just beg for you to air them up. They aren't scared. They think it's a game. They want some sort of boogey man to react to and show their stuff. And then everyone cheers and they swell with pride. If a horse reacts with fear or resistance, then it's not cut out for what you're trying to accomplish. It's either bred into them or it's not. We had one whose brother was an amazing show horse, but this guy was just a wilting flower. Very sensitive. Any little change had him cowering behind you not charging out to see what could be done about it. The show horses are the ones who charge out to do something about it.

And then there are the kind that will stand in the cross ties and snort and crane their necks in anticipation of some excitement and you know you've got yourself a show horse. But those kind aren't for everyone. Some days it makes me want to buy a quiet Quarter Horse instead.

[Malda]

Well those pictures were disturbing. Those long shanks, tight curb chains and pulled-back mouths looked painful. And did anyone else notice the chains? They're really being flung back and forth on the horses' legs. Even without soring that can't feel good after fifteen minutes.

Just because the photographer managed to capture the horse's ears forward doesn't mean that the horse had them forward most of the time.

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...z%20Player.jpg

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...r%20Pepper.jpg

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Sherman.jpg

Those don't look terrified.

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Brogdon.jpg

That is an intelligent looking, sane, non terrified grey horse.

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Brogdon.jpg

Foam is a GOOD thing in a horse's mouth. Foam is GOOD.

[Niennor]

http://www.ehorseequipment.com/brows...&cid=32&page=3

http://bedfordtack.net/shop/index.ph...th=436_377_378

I like the covered in fleece chains. If I had a gaited horse I'd be used about chaffing caused by chains without any protection.

[Niennor]

Originally Posted by katarine
http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...z%20Player.jpg

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...r%20Pepper.jpg

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Sherman.jpg

Those don't look terrified.

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Brogdon.jpg

That is an intelligent looking, sane, non terrified grey horse.

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Brogdon.jpg

Foam is a GOOD thing in a horse's mouth. Foam is GOOD.

Well those pictures were disturbing. Those long shanks, tight curb chains and pulled-back mouths looked painful. And did anyone else notice the chains? They're really being flung back and forth on the horses' legs. Even without soring that can't feel good after fifteen minutes.

Just because the photographer managed to capture the horse's ears forward doesn't mean that the horse had them forward most of the time.

I agree. The ears might be forward but the eyes tell a different story. And those HUGE pads and chains along with the riders hunched over their backs look like something that belongs in an S&M horror scene.

[Bluey]

One old remedy for high ringbone, as per some old vets advice was, when you had a bump there, attach a chain so the rubbing would irritate the bump and would make the bump reabsorb.

I only saw two old broodmares that had a chain for that purpose and I don't think it was doing anything for their ringbone, because ringbone lameness is not about the bump, but the calcification in the joint itself.

[SmartAlex]

I like the covered in fleece chains. If I had a gaited horse I'd be used about chaffing caused by chains without any protection.

Yes, but that not only deadens the noise, but stabilises the chain on the leg effectively giving you simply a leg weight and defeating the idea which is motion and noise. I have seen some chains stuffed into plastic tubes, but again, same problem.

I have NEVER had a horse chafe from chains. I have, however, had one chafe from fleece ankle cuffs because those cuffs, even if you start your ride off with clean ones, can trap a lot of arena footing between the cuff and the skin. Bare chain is really the way to go. Think about it, if you were working and sweating, which would be more comfortable? A thick, smooth Chanel chain bracelet? Or a wooly fleece one?

[Napoles]

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...Show%20Winners

Some have lovely seats, some are hunchbacks of Notre Dame.

Richard Spooner, anyone?

OMG... just OMG.

I am Irish. We don't have anything like these extreme TWH classes or Big Lick over here.. thank God.

People comparing it to event horses are really not getting the point. Event horses have to be fit, healthy, well fed and without pain ANYWHERE to be the best they can be.

They live like kings. Yes, unfortunately, the sport has its dangers - it is a risk sport and accidents can and do happen.

This Big Lick stuff is not a risk sport though, and you can't tell me that these horses don't go through discomfort every single day of their lives in order to be able to produce a grotesque gait like that in the showring.

The difference is their home lives. Event and jump horses do not suffer pain or at the very least discomfort in every waking hour. It is in their producer's best interest that they feel TERRIFIC!!

I'm afraid I can't be convinced that these Big Lick horses do not suffer every single day.

To say that stopping this practice is just one step from stopping people from riding horses is a step way, way too far. It is grotesque and unnatural - in a way that riding a horse in a normal way can never be viewed.

[FineAlready]

Questions:

1. Regarding the photographs posted by Katarine, why are many of the horses' pasterns wet and consequently covered in arena footing? What is on them that the dirt is sticking to?

2. How do the horses shod this way not suffer a lot of suspensory and other soft tissue injures? I don't get it. All I see when I look at the way they are shod is their suspensories getting loaded in a terrible way.

[SmartAlex]

Questions:

1. Regarding the photographs posted by Katarine, why are many of the horses' pasterns wet and consequently covered in arena footing? What is on them that the dirt is sticking to?

I noticed that too. I've never seen a horse pick up that much arena dust.

[shakeytails]

It's the grease, provided by the DQP, applied to the legs under the chains to reduce friction.