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  1. #81
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    Charmb, great post

    Honestly though, I am not trying to turn this thread into a debate about the merits and drawbacks of an open studbook, I was just pointing out that the CWB books and breeding policies are not similar nor are they modeled after the Hanoverian ones as a couple of people here claimed.

    As for the x-ray issue, you are going to find horses of all warmblood breeds that have DOD's, has nothing to do with the CWB horses in particular. But fwiw, the CSH horse auction horses had to have their x-rays ( many more views as well) approved by an equine vet before being accepted into the sale which I thought was a good idea as the market here almost demands that.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  2. #82
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    Thank you Rodawn for that very informative post, it helped a lot to clarify the distinction. It was always my understanding that CSH was a type registry while CW was a breed registry.



  3. #83
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    Apr. 30, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post
    Charmb, great post

    Honestly though, I am not trying to turn this thread into a debate about the merits and drawbacks of an open studbook, I was just pointing out that the CWB books and breeding policies are not similar nor are they modeled after the Hanoverian ones as a couple of people here claimed.

    As for the x-ray issue, you are going to find horses of all warmblood breeds that have DOD's, has nothing to do with the CWB horses in particular. But fwiw, the CSH horse auction horses had to have their x-rays ( many more views as well) approved by an equine vet before being accepted into the sale which I thought was a good idea as the market here almost demands that.
    Ok, I will only make one more suggestion. Cw was incorporated in 1990, 22 years ago. The books have changed. And I know they used the Hanoverian as a blueprint for creating the association, including the founders going to German for help and suggestions. Honestly, that is exactly where the books come from. But, ask the Verband themselves and see what they say.
    Canada has more variation because of the nature of the mare base . But the Germans have a pre-stud book also and those mares can get into the main mare book. http://www.hannoveraner.com/2414.html They only need 3 gens to be in the stud book.

    As far as philosophy - you are right there. We are much more like the Dutch. Incorporating a wide range of Wb types and therefore more of an open book. It has worked very well for them.



  4. #84
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    Mar. 1, 2007
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    Ok, I will only make one more suggestion. Cw was incorporated in 1990, 22 years ago. The books have changed. And I know they used the Hanoverian as a blueprint for creating the association, including the founders going to German for help and suggestions. Honestly, that is exactly where the books come from. But, ask the Verband themselves and see what they say.
    Canada has more variation because of the nature of the mare base . But the Germans have a pre-stud book also and those mares can get into the main mare book. http://www.hannoveraner.com/2414.html They only need 3 gens to be in the stud book


    I don't know what they used to do (the CW's) but quite frankly I think 22 years ago they would have had an impossible go of things if they would have modeled their books and policies after the Hanoverians considering the mare base here then. I have a feeling that is what certain people tell their members because they simply are on two opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to breeding policies. Just because some of the names of the books are the same doesn't mean they function the same way.

    To explain further, the Hanoverian books are for Hanoverian branded horses and for the odd individual from a very specific population IF (and only if) they show qualities needed to be an ASSET to the breed. All warmbloods that come from the accepted populations are only able to be placed in the highest book IF they score high enough. Either the mare is a benefit to the genetic pool or it is not. There is no grey area. TB, Arabian and Anglo mares can be place in the stud book (middle book) as well but ONLY mares from these three populations IF they score high enough and of course branded Hano mares if they don't score high enough to be placed in the MSB. In essence the only horses allowed to contribute genetically aside from Hanoverian branded mares are horses that can achieve the same scores a Han branded mare has to to be elligible for Elite Mare status (in Canada and Germany they need the 1A prize as well) ie she must be better than the average Hanoverian mare.

    Canadian Warmbloods basically have a book for every type of mare that could be presented and any mare that is placed in any of these books can contribute genetically on some level. This is, as you can see, a very different scheme from the one mentioned above.

    Also, CWs do not look at blood the same way the Hanoverians do. Trakehners, Tbs, Arabs and Anglo Arabs are not seen as assets to the breed, they are placed in lower books and are not eligible for MSB entry. Again, I am not arguing for or against here but really, looking at the two registries how can you find any real similarities at all between the two in these regards?? They are on opposite ends of the spectrum, they do not share similar breeding policies and I don't see evidence that they ever have.

    As far as philosophy - you are right there. We are much more like the Dutch. Incorporating a wide range of Wb types and therefore more of an open book. It has worked very well for them

    Yes, it has. A studbook can be too closed for it's own good, just as it can be too open. I won't argue with you there.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  5. #85
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    Jan. 28, 2004
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    I have not read the whole thread, so not sure if this has been mentioned yet. My former coach bred CWHBA and my gelding is also registered CWHBA. I've had quite extensive experience with the organization. As a potential buyer, I was MUCH more impressed by the CSHA sale. Yes, they had fewer horses, but their marketing strategy was bounds and leaps better than CWHBA. Each horse had photos of a clean, well groomed horse presented properly and a video to showcase the horse's training and ability. I also feel as if the riding horse quality is overall higher for the CSHA auction. Again, that could be due to the smaller number of horses, or more targeted pool of horses, but the riding horses available in the CWHBA auction seem to vary from very little/amateur training to training/showing in a professional program, to everything in between. From my experience, the CWHBA auction is where many people go to get a warmblood prospect rather inexpensively (which can be seen in the auction results from last year which were quite poor).



  6. #86
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    Dec. 31, 2002
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    This has been a really intersting read. This is the first time ill be attending both-so be interesting to see the different quality of horses in the flesh
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. 1300 pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster.



  7. #87
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2011
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    Alberta
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    I've been to the fall classic sales a few times over the past few years, and there is definitely both ends of the scale. There are some really lovely horses, and then there's the some that are, well, just not. Overall though, I definitely think the quality of horses in general has been improving over the past few years. I think if the organization can keep moving forward and improving, there is a ton of potential for the Canadian registries.

    I think the CSHA sale was absolutely great, well organized, well run, and looking at all the work and prep they did beforehand, it was no wonder that those horses commanded a FAR higher price than they would have gone for a the fall sale. They definitely marketed it extremely well, and everyone looked at it as a higher quality, more prestigious sale. Maybe if the CWHBA did something similar to that for their June sale, prices wouldn't be wouldn't so dismal for the breeder. Don't get me wrong, if I had the funds I would be picking something up at the fall sale, it is definitely a buyer's market right now! But I know a few breeders don't plan to consign anything at the CWHBA sales for the next foreseeable future, it's just not worth it to them. They'd rather hold out for that private buyer instead of letting nice horses go for peanuts

    Very interesting discussion though. No matter what, there is always room for improvement for sure.
    Eventing It Up In The Great White North! A girl, a horse, and a helmet cam!!
    http://albertaeventer.blogspot.com/



  8. #88
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    Does anyone have the results (or link if it's available online) from the Fall Classic Sale yesterday?



  9. #89
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    I do I think everyone was pretty pleased- markets were up from last year.

    I'm just heading home and will type them up for you all!
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. 1300 pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster.



  10. #90
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    Ok, here we go.

    1) painting $500
    2) breeding to Bosch Blue $2000
    Lot 1) M3 Wolkenlilly 2009 Filly Wolkenstein II x m3 Aphrodite $13,000
    2) Scratched
    3) Tarifa 2005 mare Tacorde x Liberty Street xx $17, 500
    4) Debutante 2008 gelding Z Camelot x Dazzle. NS - bidding went up to $8500
    5) Dolce and Gabbana 2010 filly Don Frederico x Lillian. $9500
    6) Google KT 2010 gelding. Grosso Gold x Volanda. NS - bidding went to $8200
    7) Scatch
    8) Pennie Cress 2010 filly. Whirlwind II x Tanzie. NS - bidding went to $3700
    9) Archer RPH 2011 colt Aquilan Calypso x Bravada RPH. NS - bidding went up to $9100
    10) scratch
    11) Asoka 2011 filly. Gervantus x Karalina W. NS
    12) scratch
    13) Florida 2012 filly. Fursteinreich x Superstition. $13, 250
    14) Quest. 2012 colt. Quidam Blue x Billy Jean. $5750
    15) Chagall. 2008 gelding. Comic Hilltop x Roulette. $24 000 - high seller
    16) Tristan. 2005 gelding Talme K x Leia. $10, 500
    17) Banner RPH 2009 gelding. Baricello x Chi Chi Grande xx. NS - bidding went to $5500
    18) Beaudelaire. 2006 gelding. Beau Soleil x Ariadne. $6700
    19) scratch
    20) Farrah. 2010 filly. Ikoon x Roses for Grace xx. $6750
    21) scratch
    22) En Route. 2012 gelding. Earl x Latte III. $3000
    23) Grigio. 2011 gelding. Ikoon x Warwara. NS - bidding went up to $3250
    24) scratch
    25) scratch
    26) Karalina W (infoal to Donner Bube) Goya de Lully x Kassandra xx. $4000
    27) Eezee Top. 2012 gelding. Edward x Rascelle. $3900
    28) Drammatico. 2012 colt. Donner Bube x Harmony II. $5700
    29) Iridessa. 2012 filly. Ikoon x Ghia. $6900
    30) MJ Witherspoon. 2007 mare. Whirlwind II x MJ Just Do It. NS - bidding went up to $9200
    31) scratch
    32) Ever So Lightly. 2009 gelding. Zeno H2 x Safia. $11, 500
    33) Watch Me. 2009 mare. Cat Weasel x WKM Robyn. $12, 750
    34) MJ Jamie Sale. 2010 mare. Whirlwind II x MJ Just Do It. $8500
    35) Emmitt. 2010 gelding. Eastern Ruler x Foxhaven's Grafin. $6250
    36) scratch
    37) Everclear. 2010 gelding. Earl x Pistachio. $9000
    38) MJ Got Rhythm. 2009 mare. Gervantus II x M3 Desiree. $9250
    39) Gilligan. 2008 gelding. Graf Top x Graduate. NS - bidding went up to $8000
    40) Mj Massarotti. 2005 gelding. MJ Pax x MJ Tender Moments. NS - biding went up to $5500
    41) Well to Do. 2007 gelding. Welt Klasse x Hollyanna. NS - bidding went up to $12,000
    42) Carousel's Ikonic. 2010 gelding. Ikoon x Miss Germany. NS - bidding went up to $8300
    43) scratch
    44) Juno MP. 2010 gelding. Whirlwind II x Fall En Angel. $8500
    45) scratch
    46) MJ Alice Springs. 2007 mare. Whirlwind II x MJ Sydney Rainbow $8500
    47) Playboy. 2009 gelding. Portland L x Barmaid. $14,000
    48) A Summer Holiday MP. 2010 filly. Whirwind II x MJ Seoul. $8000
    49) scratch
    50) scratch
    51) Anika KT. 2005 mare. VDL Artic x Cara KT. $13, 500
    52) Enya. 2008 mare. Eastern Ruler x Wodan's Shadow. $7300
    53) scratch
    54) Days of Summer. 2010 mare. Donner Bube x Harmony II. $3900
    55) LSF Preston. 2009 gelding. Portland L x Frangelico. NS - bidding went up to $4500
    56) Butrus. 2009 gelding. Beau Soleil x Budicca. $7000
    57) Exotique Brise. 2008 mare. Eastern Ruler x Brook (cleveland bay). $6250
    58) scratch
    59) M3 Wembley. Wolkenstein II x Windii. $2600
    60) scratch
    61) Andalay. 2008 gelding. Laurinn x Thatcher. $20,000
    62) scratch
    63) Calido's Liebchen KT. 2006 mare. Calidostar x Libelle. NS - bidding went up to $20,000
    64) Celine QV. 2007 mare. Carthago Sun x Hot Wheels xx. $5000
    65) Drop Kick Murphy. 2010 gelding. Donner Bube x Falcon II. $7300


    VoilĂ 
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. 1300 pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster.



  11. #91
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    Wow!! Thanks for that marathon typing job .



  12. #92
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    Oct. 12, 2006
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    Canada
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    Thanks for posting! A lot of scratches!
    Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique!!!



  13. #93
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    Dec. 31, 2002
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    No problem was a good excuse not to read the work emails!

    I know at least 3 of the "scratches" were sold in the few days leading up to the auction, but not sure about the others!
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. 1300 pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster.



  14. #94
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    4 horses were sold to New York and 2 to Illinois as well
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. 1300 pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster.



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