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  1. #1181
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    Gah! Bluey is an extremist. Even when we give advice to curb abuses or being thrown under the bus by bad employees, it's not good enough.

    So what the hell do you want Bluey? We know and understand that not everybody abuses, we also know that sometimes $hit happens. I also know that if decent farmers want to protect themselves from these people then they should probably take a look at their tails and make some improvements that will quell the general publics suspicions. Stop being reactionary.

    Gagag laws just seem to me that they have something to hide.

    Install video cameras themselves and then they can prove that it's a rare occurrence. There are video cameras everywhere nearly every public/private business has them. Why are THEY so reluctant?



  2. #1182
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Gah! Bluey is an extremist. Even when we give advice to curb abuses or being thrown under the bus by bad employees, it's not good enough.

    So what the hell do you want Bluey? We know and understand that not everybody abuses, we also know that sometimes $hit happens. I also know that if decent farmers want to protect themselves from these people then they should probably take a look at their tails and make some improvements that will quell the general publics suspicions. Stop being reactionary.

    Gagag laws just seem to me that they have something to hide.

    Install video cameras themselves and then they can prove that it's a rare occurrence. There are video cameras everywhere nearly every public/private business has them. Why are THEY so reluctant?
    For what I hear, they had video cameras, just not in every corner.
    You are right, they will now learn to be sure they are covering the whole place, so they can see exactly what happened and why, not have only one animal rights extremist video to go by and we already know what those are worth for getting the whole story.

    Just think, what to all here is only about scoring a point for animal rights extremists, for the ones owning and caring for the cows is much more, as their cows count in a way those just looking for abuses to hang them by will never understand, believe it or not.

    As for gag laws, the only one I know of was one proposed in FL.
    All industry talk was against them as a very bad idea on several levels.
    If some politician took off running with them, he and any supporters did that without general industry support.



  3. #1183
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    This year (2012), ag-gag bills were introduced in Utah, Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Florida and New York.

    The Florida bill was defeated.
    The Indiana bill was defeated.
    The Illionois bill was defeated.

    The Iowa bill was signed into law March 02, 2012

    The Utah bill was also signed into law.

    The others are pending.

    The passage of the Iowa ag-gag bill came with support from some of the state’s most powerful agricultural lobbyists including:

    The Institute for Cooperatives,
    The Agribusiness Association of Iowa,
    Iowa Select Farms,
    Iowa Cattlemen’s Association,
    Iowa Dairy Association,
    Iowa Farm Bureau,
    Iowa Corn Growers Association and
    Monsanto Co.

    Noth Dakota, Kansas and Montana already have Ag Gag laws in place.
    Last edited by luvmytbs; Oct. 12, 2012 at 06:17 PM.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  4. #1184
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    This year (2012), ag-gag bills were introduced in Utah, Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Florida and New York.

    The Florida bill was defeated.

    The Iowa bill was signed into law March 02, 2012

    The Utah bill was also signed into law.

    The others are pending.

    The passage of the Iowa ag-gag bill came with support from some of the state’s most powerful agricultural lobbyists including:

    The Institute for Cooperatives,
    The Agribusiness Association of Iowa,
    Iowa Select Farms,
    Iowa Cattlemen’s Association,
    Iowa Dairy Association,
    Iowa Farm Bureau,
    Iowa Corn Growers Association and
    Monsanto Co.
    Well, all that I have been reading in farm magazines was against it, with very good reasons.

    I wonder what the specifics to each bill were, if it was about more than just keeping animal rights extremist out so they could not keep looking for abuses to brand the whole, as they have been doing, as they just did in IL right before some laws were to pass, that would have shut all dairies?

    There is more to the stories than what you get in your animal rights extremist groups releases, as they are after only one goal and it is definitely not informing with any other than what will further their agendas, unlike those in the industries, that have a job to do, are not only out there to gather publicity and donations as the way they make their living.



  5. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    There is more to the stories than what you get in your animal rights extremist groups releases
    What on earth are you talking about?

    Why don't you research each state's legislative site instead of claiming ARA's are making this stuff up.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  6. #1186
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    You really ought to re read what was said.
    They were actually agreeing. You just can't seem to stop arguing and demeaning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Waste of time, yes, waste of time to get those to think, that sadly can't for themselves.

    If you would just think if what you say makes sense, you would not have proposed that.

    No, abuse happens rarely and then behind inspectors and foremen eyes.
    And yes, there is documented abuse instigated by those animal rights extremist plants in places of work, as the lawsuit the HSUS just lost by just doing that, in that circus, shame on them.

    You really ought to have figured that by yourself.



  7. #1187
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    What on earth are you talking about?

    Why don't you research each state's legislative site instead of claiming ARA's are making this stuff up.
    I am not saying they are making that up, although we know so much they are making up already.

    I say their news releases in emails and web sites and to the press are full of those kinds of news and of course, as they want their followers to hear them, not always quite as they really are.

    Since you bring that up, yes, I would say it definitely seems that animal rights extremists are making plenty up.
    Read about the circus lawsuit and that, as some of their followers insist happens in dairies, that abuse is ongoing out of the eyes of the animal rights extremist plants and their videos, the same is ongoing with those animal rights groups, that finally were caught with their pants down that one time framing the circus people to make it look like abuse was happening.
    No telling how many other times they have been doing the same.



  8. #1188
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    This is truly scary.

    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    This year (2012), ag-gag bills were introduced in Utah, Nebraska, Minnesota, Missouri, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Florida and New York.

    The Florida bill was defeated.
    The Indiana bill was defeated.
    The Illionois bill was defeated.

    The Iowa bill was signed into law March 02, 2012

    The Utah bill was also signed into law.

    The others are pending.

    The passage of the Iowa ag-gag bill came with support from some of the state’s most powerful agricultural lobbyists including:

    The Institute for Cooperatives,
    The Agribusiness Association of Iowa,
    Iowa Select Farms,
    Iowa Cattlemen’s Association,
    Iowa Dairy Association,
    Iowa Farm Bureau,
    Iowa Corn Growers Association and
    Monsanto Co.

    Noth Dakota, Kansas and Montana already have Ag Gag laws in place.



  9. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Argh! I only watched a little of the video. Jeez. They have some serious training issues human and animal.

    I remember when having others milk your cattle was "just not done". Dairy farmers never went on vacation. No one will care/handle/milk your cattle like you would. But in those days they all had names.

    One of the problems these days with the huge dairy's, the cattle are expendable and can be immediately replaced. They will never see the care they once enjoyed in a small operation. They are just a piece of the machinery.

    We moved downed cattle on a stone boat pulled by a tractor. Didn't matter WHAT was wrong or whether she would even live. Gah! People suck.
    I guess you live in a weird area where Dairy farmers NEVER took vacations. Dairy farms are always under stress due to exact milking times etc but NEVER...nonesense

    As is your comment that cows are easily replaced. I live by a major dairy. They have daily milking stats go into the computer and they have been BREEDING their top cows for over 25 years.

    They are far from just machinery...there you go again...pile on everyone in the school yard.

    They even have blood pressure tests EACH time they are milked. Hooves are checked...they live in temperature controlled buildings during the extreme heat or cold

    People don't suck and neither are animals worth more than them. Abusers suck...but that is such a RARE occurance for a Dairy as it is a total hands on business.

    There are ALWAYS going to be abusers. We do not shut down all senior homes due to abuse nor do we stop all children visiting their senior parents because they may rob them of all of their investments.



  10. #1190
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Gah! Bluey is an extremist. Even when we give advice to curb abuses or being thrown under the bus by bad employees, it's not good enough.

    So what the hell do you want Bluey? We know and understand that not everybody abuses, we also know that sometimes $hit happens. I also know that if decent farmers want to protect themselves from these people then they should probably take a look at their tails and make some improvements that will quell the general publics suspicions. Stop being reactionary.

    Gagag laws just seem to me that they have something to hide.

    Install video cameras themselves and then they can prove that it's a rare occurrence. There are video cameras everywhere nearly every public/private business has them. Why are THEY so reluctant?
    Equine slaughter...has videos the minute the kill floor opens up. HOWEVER the anti slaughter claim they really aren't real..and then they take a ten year old video..doctor it (it was taken by them) and change the date to make it look very current.

    Many auctions have cameras but they do not advertise it as the livestock in the pens waiting for sale day can be injured by extreme groups.

    Many livestock operations do have camers and do not advertise it. That way they can catch abusers and protect themselves from the crazies.

    I have watched you forum by forum ALWAYS jump on the band wagon. Soring Saddlebreds....training torture of Arabians...abusing livestock..whenever there is something negative to put in print.."our Mary" is the gal who always piles on with her bed time stories.



  11. #1191
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    That was the problem. No one was noticing.
    How long is that supposed to be ok?? One day or 30??
    This is our food supply.
    If this wasn't happening, what would there be to find??

    You aren't really one to point fingers since you won't even read the USDA report. Isn't this the same organization you are absolutely positive is one of the best inspection agencies we have??
    You want to have it both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You are reading too many animal rights extremists releases, as is obvious, since you parrot them.

    You are wrong, that abuse would not happen as soon as someone noticed, if it was not even staged for the video, that has been known to happen before.

    Do you really, really think that everyone in dairies are abusing their cows all the time and if it was not for that planted animal rights extremist with it's video camera no one would catch on?

    You can think so because you don't know anything at all about cows.
    If you abuse them, they won't be productive.
    If nothing else, for purely a profit motive, dairymen do try to keep their cows happy.

    Yes, do quit repeating what animal rights extremist stories tell, their propaganda, without first running that by your own brain and see if it even makes sense.

    Do you really think that churches, schools, those in the horse industry, are not trying to curb abuses where they happen, best they can?
    Look at the TWH. Really???

    I will repeat, the abuse card as a reason to blame everyone in one discipline or anywhere animals are used is really just too tired to get any traction here any more.



  12. #1192
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    When we stop beating our head against the brick wall, we will realize we don't have a headache anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Waste of time jetsmom, waste of time.



  13. #1193
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    Why is it you always use animal/human comparisons when you don't think of animals as having that kind of emotion??? Isn't that rather like apples and oranges?? Just sayin

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I guess you live in a weird area where Dairy farmers NEVER took vacations. Dairy farms are always under stress due to exact milking times etc but NEVER...nonesense

    As is your comment that cows are easily replaced. I live by a major dairy. They have daily milking stats go into the computer and they have been BREEDING their top cows for over 25 years.

    They are far from just machinery...there you go again...pile on everyone in the school yard.

    They even have blood pressure tests EACH time they are milked. Hooves are checked...they live in temperature controlled buildings during the extreme heat or cold

    People don't suck and neither are animals worth more than them. Abusers suck...but that is such a RARE occurance for a Dairy as it is a total hands on business.

    There are ALWAYS going to be abusers. We do not shut down all senior homes due to abuse nor do we stop all children visiting their senior parents because they may rob them of all of their investments.



  14. #1194
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    Why is it you always use animal/human comparisons when you don't think of animals as having that kind of emotion??? Isn't that rather like apples and oranges?? Just sayin
    First we must define abuse. Is it abuse by human standards or livestock? It is determined that screaming at a child is abuse..but it screaming at your dog to stop, abuse?

    Animals rights say YES!

    Herding your kids through disneyland with a crop or whip would be abuse even if a child was never touched.

    Herding your livestock with a snaping whip (not connecting) to direct them is standard practice..and according to Animal Rights groups it IS abuse.

    The reason I compare people to animals is for a reason. Animal Rights activists do it on a regular basis.

    Spanking a child is abuse..and they consider the correction of a two year old stud who has just lunged and struck out..to be abuse if there is a chain over its nose or it is struck with a crop to correct it.

    Animal Rights activists BELIEVE one can REASON with livestock and companion animals.

    This is the disconnect they have from animals.



  15. #1195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Equine slaughter...has videos the minute the kill floor opens up. HOWEVER the anti slaughter claim they really aren't real..and then they take a ten year old video..doctor it (it was taken by them) and change the date to make it look very current.

    Many auctions have cameras but they do not advertise it as the livestock in the pens waiting for sale day can be injured by extreme groups.

    Many livestock operations do have camers and do not advertise it. That way they can catch abusers and protect themselves from the crazies.

    I have watched you forum by forum ALWAYS jump on the band wagon. Soring Saddlebreds....training torture of Arabians...abusing livestock..whenever there is something negative to put in print.."our Mary" is the gal who always piles on with her bed time stories.
    It would not be out of the realm of possibilities that some here are working for animal rights groups.
    They post here as part of their job.
    All you have to do is see what they bring forth, where that comes from and who they attack regularly.

    The real activist are here, trying to pass as every day Joe, but, well, by their words you shall know them.

    Read the article I used to start another thread about how the regular media is starting to catch up to who those groups really are and about time, I think.



  16. #1196
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    Yes and some parents like to believe you can reason with your child.

    I don't disagree with that. I would also suspect alot of people screaming abuse have never had either a child or a 2 y.o. stud.

    The problem at Disneyland is not herding them so much as keeping track of them. That would likely be a different form of abuse.:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    First we must define abuse. Is it abuse by human standards or livestock? It is determined that screaming at a child is abuse..but it screaming at your dog to stop, abuse?

    Animals rights say YES!

    Herding your kids through disneyland with a crop or whip would be abuse even if a child was never touched.

    Herding your livestock with a snaping whip (not connecting) to direct them is standard practice..and according to Animal Rights groups it IS abuse.

    The reason I compare people to animals is for a reason. Animal Rights activists do it on a regular basis.

    Spanking a child is abuse..and they consider the correction of a two year old stud who has just lunged and struck out..to be abuse if there is a chain over its nose or it is struck with a crop to correct it.

    Animal Rights activists BELIEVE one can REASON with livestock and companion animals.

    This is the disconnect they have from animals.



  17. #1197
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    Good goawd I swear you people live under a rock. Deny deny deny. Abuses happen everywhere. People, animals. I'm sick of defenders denying it happens and that only "bad" people do it and that you are "bad" believing it. There are "bad" people everywhere.

    Fairfax, you sir are pot stirrer and a dirty player. I do believe you to be one of "bad" dishonest people in the world.

    Which reminds me about playing dirty, my dear friend disclosed to me that you made an unsolicited call to her and slandered a man that bought a horse from her. You wanna play I WILL play.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #1198
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    There was something just posted on FB saying that Canada stopped taking our horses for slaughter because of the bute issue. No idea if this is true or not.



  19. #1199
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Good goawd I swear you people live under a rock. Deny deny deny. Abuses happen everywhere. People, animals. I'm sick of defenders denying it happens and that only "bad" people do it and that you are "bad" believing it. There are "bad" people everywhere.

    Fairfax, you sir are pot stirrer and a dirty player. I do believe you to be one of "bad" dishonest people in the world.

    Which reminds me about playing dirty, my dear friend disclosed to me that you made an unsolicited call to her and slandered a man that bought a horse from her. You wanna play I WILL play.

    How does that go, "thou protests too much?"

    Look, abuse is very serious, no one is taking any abuse lightly.
    To deny that is absurd.
    It is also absurd to keep wanting to ban anything you want to ban because someone, sometime, found an abuser there.

    Got much mileage of the abuse card, but like everything else used for myths and propaganda, eventually it becomes clear it is being taken out of context, as a tool for certain agendas.



  20. #1200
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