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  1. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    The EU flatly states: NO BUTE EVER IN THEIR LIFETIME ALLOWED. (Doesn't matter if it's true or not, whether you agree or disagree--that is supposed to be one of their major conditions.

    TBs from the U.S. (and I'll bet Canada) have been found to have a greater than 90%--more like 98% (California) incidence of running on bute.

    Yet they continue to go to slaughter. What other rules get bent regularly?
    The U.S. does NOT have any food animal criteria for U.S. horses shipped out of the country for slaughter.
    NOTHING~!
    There is no difference between a slaughter horse or any other horse in the U.S.
    U.S. horses are NOT regulated food animals here and the U.S. does NOT require anything - no paperwork - regarding what the horse has been treated with.

    You could pump them full of anything and sell them at an auction where a slaughter buyer could buy them and ship them within a few days.

    The slaughter buyers are allowed to create the EID's or Equine Identification Document - which are foreign documents required by Canada and Mexico - and state that the horse is drug free when they have only owned that horse a few days or long enough to put the paperwork together to ship it. The U.S. doesn't even keep a copy because it is not a U.S. document.

    EVERY U.S. horse should be considered adulterated as the majority of medical histories are unknown and do not transfer with the horses. Only 100% testing could instill any confidence in the safety of U.S. horses used for human consumption.
    http://habitatforhorses.wordpress.co...eat-and-drugs/

    http://canadianhorsedefencecoalition...e-to-plate.pdf

    Of interest is the fact that the European Commission (EC), seriously concerned about the potential presence of phenylbutazone in horsemeat, is not permitting horses over the age of 6 months to enter the food chain.
    The Irish Veterinary Journal, Volume 63, Number 12:
    http://www.veterinaryirelandjournal....c_2010.pdf.pdf
    states: “The legislation is now in place (EU Commission Reg. No 504/2008), stating that all horses in Europe must have an equine passport. The legislation goes further to state that any passport issued to an equine over six months of age will automatically be excluded from the food chain.”
    Ironic that they take ANY U.S. horses knowing that the paperwork is fabricated - created by the horse slaughter dealer that only owned that horse a few days.
    70% of horses slaughtered in Canada are U.S. horses.



  2. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    The U.S. does NOT have any food animal criteria for U.S. horses shipped out of the country for slaughter.
    NOTHING~!
    There is no difference between a slaughter horse or any other horse in the U.S.
    U.S. horses are NOT regulated food animals here and the U.S. does NOT require anything - no paperwork - regarding what the horse has been treated with.

    You could pump them full of anything and sell them at an auction where a slaughter buyer could buy them and ship them within a few days.

    The slaughter buyers are allowed to create the EID's or Equine Identification Document - which are foreign documents required by Canada and Mexico - and state that the horse is drug free when they have only owned that horse a few days or long enough to put the paperwork together to ship it. The U.S. doesn't even keep a copy because it is not a U.S. document.

    EVERY U.S. horse should be considered adulterated as the majority of medical histories are unknown and do not transfer with the horses. Only 100% testing could instill any confidence in the safety of U.S. horses used for human consumption.
    http://habitatforhorses.wordpress.co...eat-and-drugs/

    http://canadianhorsedefencecoalition...e-to-plate.pdf



    Ironic that they take ANY U.S. horses knowing that the paperwork is fabricated - created by the horse slaughter dealer that only owned that horse a few days.
    70% of horses slaughtered in Canada are U.S. horses.
    I agree that if these drugs were such a huge issue as you make them out to be the EU would not take North American horses. Since they do and neither the U.S. or Canada has an identification system the drugs must not be an issue.

    Why should the U.S. have any kind of controls on equines for food? After all it is not legal to slaughter horses for human consumption in the U.S.

    If it was legal then I could see it being controlled. Perhaps it should be made legal to address your concerns as then you could have some input.



  3. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
    I agree that if these drugs were such a huge issue as you make them out to be the EU would not take North American horses. Since they do and neither the U.S. or Canada has an identification system the drugs must not be an issue.

    Why should the U.S. have any kind of controls on equines for food? After all it is not legal to slaughter horses for human consumption in the U.S.

    If it was legal then I could see it being controlled. Perhaps it should be made legal to address your concerns as then you could have some input.

    Oh, it is legal to slaughter horses in the USA, it is not yet illegal, that is why the animal rights extremists cause of the moment "ban horse slaughter" we are discussing here.

    The fact is that we don't have inspectors for horse slaughter plants for human consumption, because the sleight of hand lobbying of animal rights groups, which then makes horse slaughter moot question.
    Without USDA inspection, a requirement for human consumption, there is de facto no slaughter.

    You do have a point there, those drug residues are not relevant, as most drugs we use are out of the system in a few days anyway and very hard to find in some tissues we don't eat, like Gentamicin in the kidneys past a few months.

    We need to remember that those drugs are the same we use in human medicine, but yes, we don't want them in the food we eat and there are regulations for that.

    That is one reason all slaughter plants have inspectors and labs in house and test intensively.
    When we export any products, meats or grains or whatever, they again are tested with specific protocols to the product and any residues found will condemn the whole batch.

    Those horse plants we had were very aware of that.
    They had strict testing protocols, as it is much easier to condemn a small batch at the plant than have a whole shipment condemned and so not paid for after all the expenses incurred to get it to other countries.

    In reality, most horses going to slaughter never tested positive for anything.
    Horses are not all under the management of those that happily medicate them at every turn, as some here say they do.
    I find that a bit worrisome and would suggest they check with their vet about that and see about changing something, as it really is not normal to have need for a continuously medicated horse for normal horses in general use.



  4. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Gee Fairfax so glad you've never had a horse that required a NSAID, of course you have to actually have to use horses YOURSELF in order to know if they would need such things.

    Who said ANYTHING about an injured leg?

    ETA apparently you've never been on a trail ride outside an open field overnight for days. Talk about cherry picking....
    Oh..gosh...don't use the horses? I have my opinions based on my use.

    I realize you have not had international experience however I have been successful at U.S. Nationals in performance classes over the years, I seem to recall I was in the saddle.

    We do a lot of competative trail riding up here and the ASB most certainly can hold its own..without drugs..I don't do the 50 or 100 mile but I do a great 25 mile and still manage to walk the next day.

    And, an important point to this discussion...I do not rely on anyone else to sell my horses. I develope and work on my own marketing skills. I do not complain about registration groups "letting me down" by not creating a market...

    HOWEVER, I still support slaughter AS AN OPTION.



  5. #1045
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    You do?



  6. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    You do?
    Seems obvious, doesn't.

    I support the fight against the cause of the moment animal rights extremists and their groups have made out of "ban horse slaughter".

    I support and believe that we need to fight animal rights extremists wherever they show up, as our human rights to own and use animals, as the natural, renewable resource they are for humans, hang in the balance.

    This "ban horse slaughter" animal rights extremist agenda driven push is just one more of the many they are using to eventually reach their goal of no more animals in human hands.

    That is the big picture here, that some, following animal rights extremists propaganda, seem to fail to see.
    Yes, there is that slippery slope out there.
    You walk down it at your own risk.

    No, ban horse slaughter is not about making horse slaughter better, is not about the welfare of horses, or any other animal, but about disrupting one more of all we do with our animals and so divide and conquer, eventually eliminating all uses, no matter what or how long it takes.

    That some animal rights extremist agenda followers bring up any abuses or badly followed regulations to push for "ban horse slaughter" is smoke and mirrors.

    You want to stop abuses, you want to have better regulations, better enforced?
    Common sense tell us to work on that, not to ban wantonly.
    We don't ban driving because some break driving laws, we up the enforcement, make better roads and signs.

    Anyone for "ban horse slaughter" is, knowingly or not, working along animal rights extremists, following their agendas.
    Little they seem to realize that, whatever they may want out of their interaction with animals, that also is hanging in the balance, the richer and more powerful those animal rights extremists groups become.



  7. #1047
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    Freedom of the World Index
    Posted by Ian Vasquez

    Economic freedom in the United States has plummeted to an all-time low. According to the Economic Freedom of the World: 2012 Annual Report, co-published today with the Fraser Institute, the United States’ ranking has dropped to 18th place after having ranked 3rd for decades up to the year 2000. The loss of freedom is a decade-long trend—the United States ranked 10th in 2005—that has accelerated in recent years.

    Virtually every U.S. indicator has seen a deterioration. Government spending and regulations have grown, the rule of law and protection of property rights have weakened, and foreign investment and non-tariff barriers have increased. Authors James Gwartney, Robert Lawson, and Josh Hall note some of the reasons for the decline, including the war on terror and the growth of crony capitalism.

    As the graph below shows, the United States now has a lower economic freedom rating than it did in the 1970s.

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/the-u...e-world-index/

    This has a lot to do with slaughter and the loss of property rights.



  8. #1048
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    This has a lot to do with slaughter and the loss of property rights.
    Brainfreeze???????????????

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  9. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Brainfreeze???????????????
    Making our point for us right there.

    As already pointed out, those following animal rights extremists agendas can't see where they are headed, as is clearly obvious.

    I still have friends and family in Europe and that the USA is losing ground in so many areas of life, happiness and the pursuit of liberty, that is easy to see from the outside.

    Extremists of all stripes are getting, or seem to be getting the upper hand.
    I keep saying, checks and balances will turn this around, as it always has but, well, what if I am wrong?
    Judging by what is out there on the internet, even here with the animal rights extremists agenda followers, I have occasional doubts too.



  10. #1050
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    No extremists are getting the upperhand in the US. They will all fade out, grow out of it, be imprisoned, or find some new cause to spout off about.

    They will have their hay day, get themselves in the news, then peter out when the majority of US citizens see how perverted & pathetic they are. Their very nature, "extremists", makes their downfall inevitable.



  11. #1051
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    So why, then, does HSUS have a “Food Policy Director” who thinks farmers are running Nazi death camps? No joke.

    Meet Matt Prescott. Before he became HSUS’s Food Policy Director, he was manager of vegan campaigns for PETA. And one of his bright ideas while with PETA was devising the widely reviled “Holocaust on Your Plate” campaign comparing animal-farming to slaughtering Jews, which toured the country in 2003.


    The Associated Press reported:

    Matt Prescott, youth outreach coordinator for PETA, said the Nazis looked to the livestock industry in determining ways to transport, house and execute the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and others. Animals are still treated that way.

    "We've kept the systems and the attitudes - just changed the victims," he said.

    “Anybody who eats meat,” Prescott told a Canadian reporter, “is guilty of holding the same mindset that allowed the Holocaust to happen.”

    This line of thinking makes sense only in the fevered mind of an animal-rights zealot (now an HSUS activist, remember). Animals raised for food are put in housing systems that are approved of by veterinary experts. There are humane-slaughter regulations. There are laws against animal abuse. And so on. There’s no comparison.

    So the next time HSUS acts like it’s on the side of small-scale family farmers, keep in mind it just thinks they’re just running mini death camps. (Right.)

    We have to imagine that this was on Prescott’s résumé when HSUS hired him after his years at PETA. Not that it would matter: HSUS vice president for farm-animal issues Paul Shapiro has said that “eating meat causes animal cruelty” and carried a sign at a PETA protest stating “The Meat Industry Equals Systematic Murder.” HSUS is just PETA in a suit and tie, and anti-meat radicalism seems like a ticket to the top


    http://campaign.r20.constantcontact....fkO8uW-pBh4%3D



  12. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    No extremists are getting the upperhand in the US. They will all fade out, grow out of it, be imprisoned, or find some new cause to spout off about.

    They will have their hay day, get themselves in the news, then peter out when the majority of US citizens see how perverted & pathetic they are. Their very nature, "extremists", makes their downfall inevitable.

    have you watched the news lately?!

    You know, the ones with the guys in DC, etc....the all or nothing approach to politics. Extremism isn't going anywhere fast.
    And last, you are thinking of terrorists and 'activists'. That ha no impact on those who can behave in polite company while spouting extremist nonsense. the PETA and HSUS execs are not likely going to jail any time soon! Their useful idiots, maybe or likely, but not the brains of the operation!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  13. #1053
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    You forget that Obama put funding for it back in the bill - so whose sleight of hand are you now talking about?

    Bluey:The fact is that we don't have inspectors for horse slaughter plants for human consumption, because the sleight of hand lobbying of animal rights groups, which then makes horse slaughter moot question.
    Without USDA inspection, a requirement for human consumption, there is de facto no slaughter.



  14. #1054
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    Extremists and activists are very small factions. They try to take hold of those they perceive as vulnerable.

    Put them in with those who see their true colors and they scurry like rats.

    Extremists are basically bullies. The US is not going to take their side. Extremists are similar to cults. Mentally healthy people do not side with them.

    They can give themselevs all the titles of management they want, they still won't fool most US citizens.



  15. #1055
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    Like you've never used bute on your horses??
    Gotta keep reaching don't you.

    Bluey:I find that a bit worrisome and would suggest they check with their vet about that and see about changing something, as it really is not normal to have need for a continuously medicated horse for normal horses in general use.



  16. #1056
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    That's an interesting point - maybe the North American horses are going to Asia instead to get around this.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
    I agree that if these drugs were such a huge issue as you make them out to be the EU would not take North American horses. Since they do and neither the U.S. or Canada has an identification system the drugs must not be an issue.

    Why should the U.S. have any kind of controls on equines for food? After all it is not legal to slaughter horses for human consumption in the U.S.

    If it was legal then I could see it being controlled. Perhaps it should be made legal to address your concerns as then you could have some input.



  17. #1057
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    I think we all should be worried more about the lobbyists - they seem to have more control over everything.
    Yes Bluey there are lobbyists for big ag as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Extremists and activists are very small factions. They try to take hold of those they perceive as vulnerable.

    Put them in with those who see their true colors and they scurry like rats.

    Extremists are basically bullies. The US is not going to take their side. Extremists are similar to cults. Mentally healthy people do not side with them.

    On either side...............

    They can give themselevs all the titles of management they want, they still won't fool most US citizens.



  18. #1058
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I think we all should be worried more about the lobbyists - they seem to have more control over everything.
    Yes Bluey there are lobbyists for big ag as well.
    A bit of a difference between lobbying for industries that provide us with goods and services, like food and fiber and non-profits that push for extremists agendas, like animal rights groups.

    Those non-profits don't have any other to do than sit there, hand extended for donations and grants and lobby for their current cause of the moment, that is what gets purses open for them, with the millions they get off the gullible.

    Industries like agriculture run all kinds of programs that are producing goods and services and also have to defend themselves from extremist non-profit groups, but that is a very small part of all they do.

    Comparing them is like comparing apples and worms.



  19. #1059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    A bit of a difference between lobbying for industries that provide us with goods and services, like food and fiber and non-profits that push for extremists agendas, like animal rights groups.

    Those non-profits don't have any other to do than sit there, hand extended for donations and grants and lobby for their current cause of the moment, that is what gets purses open for them, with the millions they get off the gullible.

    Industries like agriculture run all kinds of programs that are producing goods and services and also have to defend themselves from extremist non-profit groups, but that is a very small part of all they do.

    Comparing them is like comparing apples and worms.



    As the worm turns.............



  20. #1060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    A bit of a difference between lobbying for industries that provide us with goods and services, like food and fiber and non-profits that push for extremists agendas, like animal rights groups.

    Those non-profits don't have any other to do than sit there, hand extended for donations and grants and lobby for their current cause of the moment, that is what gets purses open for them, with the millions they get off the gullible.

    Industries like agriculture run all kinds of programs that are producing goods and services and also have to defend themselves from extremist non-profit groups, but that is a very small part of all they do.

    Comparing them is like comparing apples and worms.
    Yeah like formulating a bill/law (gah can't remember the thing) to hold the small dairy farmers hostage to a middle man who garners nearly ALL the profit and at the same time makes it ILLEGAL for me to get raw milk from the local farmer. Keeping me safe.

    Talk about WTF.



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