Looking to 2012, tobiano stallion withOUT Samber (Tina D)lines?
Looking for WB stallion, tobiano, jumper/dressage lines that has no Samber(Tina D) blood.
Don't get me wrong, I like Samber, but he is EVERYWHERE in tobiano WB lines. I'm thinking maybe a Trak. toby would be nice, but anything you know of out there, I am willing to look at. Fresh or frozen is OK, and must be available to the USA. Tell me what is out there. TIA.
Last edited by paintjumper; Jun. 9, 2011 at 10:53 AM.
It was Lord Cosmo's sire, Cosmopolit who died along with Enrico Caruso.
There are only three WB tobiano lines in the US: Samber line, Lord Cosmo, and there is one mare Mystic Memories (full Trakehner, the only one besides her gelded brother) out of Manjana by Kreshendo but the tobiano came from the dam line and not the sire in her case. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mystic+memories
Last edited by back in the saddle; Jun. 10, 2011 at 06:18 AM.
Palladio does have the *dreaded* Samber as a grandparent, but you could not ask for a nicer, more talented guy. His colored foals have nice markings, they move really well, and they are mellow like their dad. http://www.crestlinefarm.com/palladiohome.htm (He's not mine, he belongs to a friend)
Thanks Lateralwork (send me a PM so I know who you are *grin*)...
In the interest of having Samber even further back without adding more Tina D we do have a up and coming stallion by Palladio out of a premium Gonzo I mare. This guy is young but so fabulous that we all still stare with our mouths open while he goes sometimes, lol. He's a 3yo this year and we're pretty excited about him and that is putting it mildly. We plan to stand him next year.
I think as the generations progress in horse breeding a single ancestor that you don't like can easily be mitigated by tons of up close ancestors that you do like.
nothing is wrong with the Samber line at all but almost 90 % of the Tobiano WBs do have Tina D (Rainbow, Samber and many others) in their pedigree and there needs to be diversity or it will all go into inbreeding too often.
I knew you would know of others out there. I have emailed them all.
Samber was a wonderful fella, I would have loved to have owned him. BUT,
his dam, Tina D is in practically every tobiano WB pedigree and I want to keep her out of my pedigrees so that they (my new foals) could later be crossed onto the Tina D bred horses. Versatility is what I am looking for and it is "as scarce as hen's teeth" to quote my grandma Thanks again guys.
This thread made me curious, since I know for example Sempatico is homozygous, which meant two tobiano parents, so I wondered where the 'other' pinto came from besides the side with Samber / Tina D. It looks to have come from the dam's sire http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ico and goes back to a 1955 tobiano with no name, listed as "Bonte Mare" with no sire/dam listed, who was bred to a Gronigen stallion (a breed I'm not familiar with) resulting in a 1959 tobiano Dutch Warmblood filly "Lucie" (assuming All Breeds is correct, it isn't always.....?)
It seems also that even if there is some repeat of Samber / Tina D, if it is far enough back it wouldn't be so much of a concern? (For example, Precipitation, a nice homozygous tobiano Warmblood stallion, has Tina D twice, but it's four generations back on the sire's side, and five generations back on the dam's side, certainly not close enough to worry me.) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/precipitation3