[paintjumper]

Looking for WB stallion, tobiano, jumper/dressage lines that has no Samber(Tina D) blood.
Don't get me wrong, I like Samber, but he is EVERYWHERE in tobiano WB lines. I'm thinking maybe a Trak. toby would be nice, but anything you know of out there, I am willing to look at. Fresh or frozen is OK, and must be available to the USA. Tell me what is out there. TIA.

[Molly Malone]

Lord Cosmo - approved ATA

[JB]

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ghlight=samber

Are you looking to totally eliminate Samber, or just don't want him closer than X generations?

[paintjumper]

Yes JB, absolutely no Samber (actually Tina D)...ever, in the pedigree is what I am looking for.

[ponygirl]

http://americantrakehner.com/Stallions/LordCosmo.asp
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/s...msknockout.htm

[Delyth]

If you're looking at frozen, there is aurum's Chess M:

http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com/gfchess.html

[Nootka]

who was the TK that died in the fire? I thought it was Lord Cosmo?

[back in the saddle]

It was Lord Cosmo's sire, Cosmopolit who died along with Enrico Caruso.

There are only three WB tobiano lines in the US: Samber line, Lord Cosmo, and there is one mare Mystic Memories (full Trakehner, the only one besides her gelded brother) out of Manjana by Kreshendo but the tobiano came from the dam line and not the sire in her case. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mystic+memories

[Lateralwork]

Palladio does have the *dreaded* Samber as a grandparent, but you could not ask for a nicer, more talented guy. His colored foals have nice markings, they move really well, and they are mellow like their dad. http://www.crestlinefarm.com/palladiohome.htm (He's not mine, he belongs to a friend)

Good luck on your non-Samber search though.

[crestline]

Thanks Lateralwork (send me a PM so I know who you are *grin*)...

In the interest of having Samber even further back without adding more Tina D we do have a up and coming stallion by Palladio out of a premium Gonzo I mare. This guy is young but so fabulous that we all still stare with our mouths open while he goes sometimes, lol. He's a 3yo this year and we're pretty excited about him and that is putting it mildly. We plan to stand him next year.

I think as the generations progress in horse breeding a single ancestor that you don't like can easily be mitigated by tons of up close ancestors that you do like.

Good luck with your search!
Andrea

[paint hunter]

Just out of curiosity, what is "wrong" with the Samber line?

(from a paint horse person who loves horses of color....)

[aurum]

nothing is wrong with the Samber line at all but almost 90 % of the Tobiano WBs do have Tina D (Rainbow, Samber and many others) in their pedigree and there needs to be diversity or it will all go into inbreeding too often.

[CowgirlDressage]

What about Rainbow? He isn't Samber at all.

[BravAddict]

I like both of the guys here: http://www.cimlastud.co.uk

Gwen, do you know of any other descendants of Mecenas that don't have Samber? It seems like he was bred to some pretty stocky mares, as he appeared very elegant himself.

Too bad they are overseas. Maybe in the future?

[Molly Malone]

What about Rainbow? He isn't Samber at all.

No, but his grandmother, Tina, is Samber's dam

[bittersweetfarm]

What about Rainbow? He isn't Samber at all.

Rainbow's pedigree has Tina D in his 3rd generation, but he was a very nice stallion. I have a Rainbow daughter I am leasing with the intention of purchasing some day.


Rainbow is deceased (June 2010), but the owner of my Rainbow daughter holds his frozen semen at the equine hospital. I can provide her contact.

[aurum]

The moment it is Tina D in the pedigree it is Rainbow and Samber and many others too. That is why the OP writes without Samber (Tina D) lines.

Samber was a very nice stallion and so was Rainbow, nevertheless they carry both the same bloodline from where the color is coming = Tina D.

Mecenas is dead since long too and I do not know much abouth him as he was not WB approved.

[paintjumper]

I knew you would know of others out there. I have emailed them all.
Samber was a wonderful fella, I would have loved to have owned him. BUT,
his dam, Tina D is in practically every tobiano WB pedigree and I want to keep her out of my pedigrees so that they (my new foals) could later be crossed onto the Tina D bred horses. Versatility is what I am looking for and it is "as scarce as hen's teeth" to quote my grandma Thanks again guys.

[JB]

Ah, now I understand why you wanted it totally out

[RiverOaksFarm]

This thread made me curious, since I know for example Sempatico is homozygous, which meant two tobiano parents, so I wondered where the 'other' pinto came from besides the side with Samber / Tina D. It looks to have come from the dam's sire http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ico and goes back to a 1955 tobiano with no name, listed as "Bonte Mare" with no sire/dam listed, who was bred to a Gronigen stallion (a breed I'm not familiar with) resulting in a 1959 tobiano Dutch Warmblood filly "Lucie" (assuming All Breeds is correct, it isn't always.....?)

It seems also that even if there is some repeat of Samber / Tina D, if it is far enough back it wouldn't be so much of a concern? (For example, Precipitation, a nice homozygous tobiano Warmblood stallion, has Tina D twice, but it's four generations back on the sire's side, and five generations back on the dam's side, certainly not close enough to worry me.) http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/precipitation3