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  1. #1381
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    Aug. 4, 2009
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    Default Great Job Dickie

    Also why not make available to every horseman a list of VETTED out people who do the OTTB re-sale thing.

    Good buyers not tire kickers who can be called BEFORE the horse is not viable for a new job, when it still has some re-sale life and $$ worthy.

    Buyers that know what they are looking for and can get a real seller buyer relationship going.

    People like Murray Rojs who actually call you when they have someting they know you will buy.
    I have several trainers in 3-4 states who call me. They know they won't see their horse in a KB pen. Will get photos and updates, there are alot of us out there.

    Yes CANTER does an awesome job, but it does go beyond CANTER and some people don't want to deal with no shows or uneducated starry eyed buyers with no clue.

    Having a good safe working list of reliable knowledgable horse people looking for OTTB makes the horsemans job easier. They call us if we take a pass they have CANTER and a in-house retirment program. You can never hae enough good options.

    Finally for the guy with no where to go and no owner or $$ a no ask surrender stall is a good idea if it doesn't get abused.

    No I need a chiropracter............



  2. #1382
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    Feb. 5, 2010
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    219

    Default

    Wow Judy - that all sounds awesome!



  3. #1383
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    Aug. 4, 2009
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    MD
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    Default

    Well since I don't hold a license for Penn someone has to carry the ball...Sweet vixen Laurierace, Dickie....???Pass the torch to you....anyone feel free to PM me or not

    I will be up in Grantville tomorrow late AM dropping off some horses.



  4. #1384
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2010
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    36

    Default

    Excellent article in the bloodhorse. I especially love the Steph Beattie disclaimer that she was unable to determine where the horse was shipped. I wonder how many other horses she had who have met an ending that was "undetermined " What a sad joke this explanation has turned out to be. So now we are supposed to believe that the HBPA president is both careless and scatter brained? The same president that is supposed to organize this retirement project? Give us a break Steph. Take your bad memory and your poor excuses and turn over the retirement project to someone in full possession of their wit who actually gives a damn. From there consider yourself lucky that Penn refuses to enforce its policy of "due diligence" And finally, enjoy your week; the unraveling is about begin on many fronts
    The other interesting tidbit in the article was the lack of a statement from the HBPA. Normally Todd Mostoller is trolling around and pounding his chest in defense of Steph. He pompously tells people about how all stories are fabricated and that there has never been any kind of proof against his president and meal ticket. But now that a major premiere online publication features it, he clams up and curls into the fetal position in the clockers stand. I mean, if you listen hard enough you can actually hear him running away from the bloodhorse phone call in search of a change of underwear. This is the same quivering knee reaction that makes him a Penn gaming favorite at the negotiating table. Better keep a change of clothes in the car this week, Monday night is only the beginning
    Free Dick Hertz! !!



  5. #1385
    Join Date
    May. 30, 2010
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    231

    Default

    In all this, yes, Steph is a villan -- with callous disposal of used up, failed the job horses to kill buyers barns, kill pens and slaughter houses. Its been proven that her horses meet this end.

    But the bigger villan are those who stand idly by and protect this behavior -- using their power to open loopholes...
    McErlean's public statement March 30th ---yet, here it is in July with no results -- even in the fact of unshakable proof.
    And worse yet, the gut-wrenching knowledge that the *gossip* is also the truth ---
    for less than this other trainers have been evicted as (undesirables).......
    All this is too big to sweep under the carpet....... and its now unraveling to the point of someone has to answer how this behavior is going unpunished.
    So..............in essence PNGI is condoning horses transport directly to slaughter.....and that makes them pro-slaughter... well...not a good stand to take against all the other tracks who protect horses, ... and spend thousands advocating protection programs.
    And again, a reminder, there WAS a rescue on ground since 2004, there WERE at least a dozen rescues within an hours drive...all just ONE quick phone call away...throughout all these years of blantant horse slaughter.
    Contrary goes back only a few months... questions arose within days of his last race......
    hard to swallow all this...
    Its not in someone elses backyard anymore....... your Pres brought it home.
    Racing>Business As Usual @PN



  6. #1386
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2002
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    Sorta near the Devon Horse Show grounds...
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    4,134

    Default

    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  7. #1387
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2002
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    Sorta near the Devon Horse Show grounds...
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by moe larry curly View Post
    The other interesting tidbit in the article was the lack of a statement from the HBPA. Normally Todd Mostoller is trolling around and pounding his chest in defense of Steph. He pompously tells people about how all stories are fabricated and that there has never been any kind of proof against his president and meal ticket. But now that a major premiere online publication features it, he clams up and curls into the fetal position in the clockers stand. I mean, if you listen hard enough you can actually hear him running away from the bloodhorse phone call in search of a change of underwear. This is the same quivering knee reaction that makes him a Penn gaming favorite at the negotiating table. Better keep a change of clothes in the car this week, Monday night is only the beginning
    Wow, sounds "Whacky" to me!
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  8. #1388
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    20,169

    Default

    I am not going to the meeting. This "fight" needs to be fought by the regulars. Even though it seems like not a single thing has changed in the almost 10 years since I was stabled there I am definitely not in the loop anymore. Heck I even have a MD bred preparing for her first start. I used to say I would carry them to PA on my back if I had to but when it came time to send my girl away I couldn't do it. Hoping for some walkovers in some MD bred stakes since I am pretty sure I am the only one dumb enough to drop in MD anymore.



  9. #1389
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    May. 24, 2010
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    19

    Default

    The full story will be told when the business separates to different segments, namely David Wells and Steph Beattie. Everyone knows that Dave has always been the key to the success of the outfit. His horsemanship and eye for detail have allowed her to enjoy a successful career. On her own she is mainly just an average exercise rider that struggles to keep pace with the competition. Her numbers will suffer greatly when or if he leaves to go on his own
    This brings about an interesting dilemma. How long will Brown, McClay and the rest of the high profile owners stick around when the numbers hit the basement? Will they still be willing to sacrifice their own reputations defending her questionable practices if the win percentage dips to 12%? I've trained for quite a while and one thing I know is that owners are a lot less tolerant when you're not winning races. Likewise, they tend to turn a blind eye when the money rolls in with regularity. Something tells me that there could be a few ship jumpers when Steph's training deficiencies become more apparent



  10. #1390
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2010
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    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by judybigredpony View Post
    Last Straw you make excellant points, but does anyone here have any ideas they wish to put forth on the plan for a retirement.
    Since I buy and sell OTTB (an no its not a hobby) I have some ideas.
    I am lucky my race stock when they reach track will come directly back to me to get sold as OTTB unless claimed beyond my $$ capacity to re-claim.

    So heres my 2cents.

    Every horse whose owner wishes to surrender must pay a modest fee along with a release to allow all vet records be available.Every vet who does work at Penn will get an updated list of potential new inductees, nerved horses,etc need full disclosure, especially if horse has changed hands a few times The fee is to be used for a complete vet exam and evaluation for soundness and mental physical ability. Before horse is found able to proceed as a sound for use Sports Horse. If the horses is deemed unfit mentally or physically it is privately euthanized with the stipend $$.
    (You have to be realistic about what will sell, horses with serious vices, major traumas, big knees, frozen joints, tapped out, huge old repeat bows). Right then and there since owner will have surrended horse and papers returned to JC.
    Only mares who have the pedigree and earned a dollar figure will have pedigree assesed for breeding by real bloodstock agent and given a grading for Broodmare status. Those mare can go with papers for breeding/riding purposes only not to race.
    Colts will be gelded before leaving program to new homes.

    Now after seeing 1st hand Turning for homes program and New Vocations and second Chance.

    This is my idea. we are fortunate to have several states so close to us. And alot of people who do this OTTB rehab well.

    I would allow private farms 4-8 from PA, NJ,DE,MD to apply.And choose 1-2 sites in each state to encourage people access to buy the horses. Farms need to be inspected, soley owned not rental property, show financial stability, insurance, proper faciliteis and proof they can do the rehab job as well as advertise and sell horse. Max 4 Penn horses at a time
    Horses would sell from $1000 to $2500.
    Penn retirement would pay basic keep for horse with no profit to farm. But in turn farm gets to keep 1/3 money from sale of horse.
    Penn supplies farrier and vet services.
    Someone needs to do bi monthly farm visits and check on every horse. The program should not get so big it can't keep tabs on the horses.
    Horseman need to know if their livestock is going to implode and crash this will reflect badly on them and jeopradise the program.
    The program is not a dumping ground for their track trash. An affordable euthenasia program needs to established.
    A drop and remove program no hauling live stock off site.
    All you need to do is advertise and I beat you get takers. Set a cap for the fee and monitor the numbers.
    Horses have to be deemed unfit for usefullness.

    Horse shows like Ludwigs Corner or BlueRock should be offered $$ to sponser Penn OTTB classes or put $$ towards them hosting the TB Development divisions. Good prize money lots of press photos for Penn Retirement Alumni.
    Also the 3-day world loves OTTB. How about a cash prize for a Penn Nat. horse OTTB Retirerment Program Alumni Award at a selected event every year, Beginner Novice and Training Level.
    Ditto for Dressage, the more good press the better.
    Get The Horse Of Delaware Valley involved for press releases and maybe free advertising for PNRP OTTB sales.
    Dr Brophy needs to step on board and offer up meds and routine shots coggins for program horses.Vets and Farriers who Pro-Bono work get lots of Kudo's jackets hats, vehicle decals, preferental parking.

    The goal needs to be re-home those horses fit for new riding careers whether it be just trail horse or competition horse.
    Unsound chronic horses need not clog up the works.
    If their owners wish to reward those horses with a permant retirement place then a farm would need to be purchased and staffed, horses owners would have to gaurentee funds monthly for duration of horses life. fund Raising efforts and a chairperson to oversee what would be a life long commitment.This needs to be a seperate program and it should have its books publicly auduted yearly as well as 4X year Vet inspection of horses.Staff needs to be vetted as well.
    Show cases like those at Fingerlakes or even auctions at Penn of under saddle rehabbed horses in the program. All ways to get press and bring in the buyers.
    Host potential buyers with free food n drink at Casino or do a day for those who have bought thru the program. They will gamble some $$$.
    Put up in the big screen between races clips of those horse available for sale thru thre program and phots of graduates competing or doing well in their career paths.
    Actually make this a BIG DEAL go whole hog or stay home. Do a full Donald Trump.
    Make Penn's program a Real Model of how it can actually be done.

    No one wants another program where you can adopt a horse for $300. and not kow what your are getting. No one wants to pay good money for a horse they can't sit on or evalutate its potential.
    Most of all allow the Customer the right to return the horse and after 1 year re-sell the horse. With notification of new buyer and copy of legitimate bill of sale. Follow up to new buyer.
    A good computer savy person can set up a good tracking system for at least 5 years.
    Some sort of clause that allows horse to come back to program to be euthanised at a fair price when the time comes.
    Make it Penns promise to do the horse right.
    Make sure every auction house has an updated list of names and tattoe numbers on every retired horse in the program, if one shows up Penn gets them back at killer price.

    OK my back hurts whose next.

    You use the word euthanasia very frequently and casually like it is nothing and to make statements like "This is not a dumping ground for their track trash" and "Unsound chronic horses need not clog up the works." Then you advocate breeding mares "Only mares who have the pedigree and earned a dollar figure will have pedigree assesed for breeding by real bloodstock agent and given a grading for Broodmare status. Those mare can go with papers for breeding/riding purposes only not to race." My God are there not enough horses already without breeding retired horses. It is a disgrace the attitude that you take toward horses that have been beat up by racing and they should just be done away with it. With your statements and attitude I wouldn't recommend that you run any rescue or retirement program.
    That's my 2 cents worth.



  11. #1391
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2008
    Posts
    669

    Default

    Philosophically I have to agree with Judy....

    If there were unlimited resources, then IMO the goal would be to find a post-racing home for EVERY racehorse.

    BUT since there are NOT unlimited resources, to me it makes sense to apply the resources where they will get the best results, and to me that means a sound horse, or a horse that CAN be sound with arthroscopy, etc. And while euthanasia isn't an appealing option, in some cases (without unlimited resources) it is the appropriate option. Unless someone can commit to supporting a pasture pet (that may need considerable upkeep) for 20+ years, euthanasia may save the horse from a worse fate. I think it would be IDEAL if trainers/owners could recognize when a horse needs to move on to another career - prior to contributing to soundess-ending injury - and get it into a rescue/retraining program BEFORE this is an issue.

    Unless the owners will pay for the costs associated with getting these horses fit for a new career and a retirement home, "it takes a village" to get them there. There are vets who will discount services, shippers who will give a ride, farms who will provide layup and trainers who will begin retraining. Putting the network of those people in place takes time, and can be difficult, but once the chain of people are in place, it often works pretty well.



  12. #1392
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2010
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by animaldoc View Post
    Philosophically I have to agree with Judy....

    If there were unlimited resources, then IMO the goal would be to find a post-racing home for EVERY racehorse.

    BUT since there are NOT unlimited resources, to me it makes sense to apply the resources where they will get the best results, and to me that means a sound horse, or a horse that CAN be sound with arthroscopy, etc. And while euthanasia isn't an appealing option, in some cases (without unlimited resources) it is the appropriate option. Unless someone can commit to supporting a pasture pet (that may need considerable upkeep) for 20+ years, euthanasia may save the horse from a worse fate. I think it would be IDEAL if trainers/owners could recognize when a horse needs to move on to another career - prior to contributing to soundess-ending injury - and get it into a rescue/retraining program BEFORE this is an issue.

    Unless the owners will pay for the costs associated with getting these horses fit for a new career and a retirement home, "it takes a village" to get them there. There are vets who will discount services, shippers who will give a ride, farms who will provide layup and trainers who will begin retraining. Putting the network of those people in place takes time, and can be difficult, but once the chain of people are in place, it often works pretty well.
    The reality is that there will always be some horses that can go in to second careers, some horses that will be companion horses only and can live out a decent life and some horses that have catastrophic injuries or will be in chronic pain or suffering and euthanasia is warranted. However, euthanasia should be used as a last resort only and for horses listed in the last category and not as a solution for retiring horses when they can only be a companion animal. The whole industry needs to get their heads out of the sand and start facing reality. And if you think that the majority of trainers are going to quit racing their horses while they are sound enough to go in to another career, think again because most of them won't quit on a horse until something does happen or they start developing a problem and then all of a sudden they want to get rid of the horse and expect someone else to take it and absorb all of the costs. The mindset needs to change.



  13. #1393
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2010
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    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alspharmd View Post
    As someone on the backside of Penn National and a person who has placed a horse through the RACE Fund program and knows that the program was well organized and works, it is disrespectful to act like there has not been a retirement and rescue program at Penn National in the past. There has been, the RACE Fund yet there is no mention of it in this article. That organization has made tremendous strides in bringing racehorse retirement and rescue to the forefront at both Philadelphia Park and Penn National because before they went in there and fought for funding for the horses for racehorse retirement, there was none. They have also educated many horsemen about horse slaughter including myself. They have the right idea, that the funding needs to come from the purses and management and breeders also need to contribute. The RACE Fund program did not fail at Penn National, the Penn National HBPA President Beattie and Board and Penn National Management failed it and the horses.



  14. #1394
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
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    MD
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    Default

    [You use the word euthanasia very frequently and casually like it is nothing and to make statements like "This is not a dumping ground for their track trash" and "Unsound chronic horses need not clog up the works." Then you advocate breeding mares "Only mares who have the pedigree and earned a dollar figure will have pedigree assesed for breeding by real bloodstock agent and given a grading for Broodmare status. Those mare can go with papers for breeding/riding purposes only not to race." My God are there not enough horses already without breeding retired horses. It is a disgrace the attitude that you take toward horses that have been beat up by racing and they should just be done away with it. With your statements and attitude I wouldn't recommend that you run any rescue or retirement program.
    That's my 2 cents worth.
    [/COLOR]

    The reality is that there will always be some horses that can go in to second careers, some horses that will be companion horses only and can live out a decent life and some horses that have catastrophic injuries or will be in chronic pain or suffering and euthanasia is warranted. However, euthanasia should be used as a last resort only and for horses listed in the last category and not as a solution for retiring horses when they can only be a companion animal. The whole industry needs to get their heads out of the sand and start facing reality. And if you think that the majority of trainers are going to quit racing their horses while they are sound enough to go in to another career, think again because most of them won't quit on a horse until something does happen or they start developing a problem and then all of a sudden they want to get rid of the horse and expect someone else to take it and absorb all of the costs. The mindset needs to change.


    My 2 mares are very well bred(as in 6 figure sire stud fees) 1 has a stakes placed filly running and the other mare was a winning sprinter. So I don't need to justify them and I take care of my own.

    Euthanasia is a way better alternative to a one way truck to Canada. And speaking from someone who buys n sells OTTB every day not a backyard hobby.
    The precentages who are going to pass a Pre-Purchase for re-sale are relatively LOW.
    Go ahead try to give away a not for riding sound horse as a companion then multiply it by 1000. See how far you get.
    Would you rather the chronic unsound in pain horses be turned loose in the hills of West Vrginia or shipped out to the plains to become modern Mustangs.
    Smell the roses. Trainers for the most part can't afford to stop a horse before it reaches the point of being unrepairable. Its a financial reality of the times.
    Tell me how many customers for a slabbed knee do you have? How many will buy a chronic cribber with bad ankles, or a knee grinding on bone who weaves?? Do you want your kid taking lessons jumping a nerved horse with broken coffin bones?? How bout a bad winded horse who has had tie-back who refluxes when he drinks water and eats. Oh yea theres a line forming for these horses. Open arms to feed shoe vet house and care for them 24/7 until they die of natural causes. We as a whole created this mess we as a whole need to take responsibilty. Like the old incontinent blind dog you love to pieces but has no quality of life. The last act of kindness is to let the animal escape another day of pain and discomfort.
    YEAH EUTHANASIA see it smell it and accept the fact its needed and in some cases under used because bleed heart horse hoarders haven't a clue.
    I am no cold hearted B***h and I feed enough from the heart horses. Reality sucks.
    you come up with a better plan, you go out and find places to safely stash the unsound, unsane, unsaleables...be my guest...come on come up with your award winning real life plan.
    I see more horses in a month that are offered for sale than most people see in a lifetime. I know whats out there and what will and won't get a home. Be real...
    With 24/7 365 racing as a business...no longer the sport of kings...horses don't get seasonally rested.
    If you want to stem the flow to the stockyards you have to accept certain real life facts.
    You will create such a burden by not triaging the horses and by blindly taking all you sink the boat.
    I could make analagies all night, bottom line is I have my idea you have yours and we don't agree makes for more than 1 flavor or ice cream.



  15. #1395
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    May. 28, 2009
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    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alspharmd View Post

    Good for Dick Hertz! They silenced him here, but others are listening. There may be hope for the equine population afterall.



  16. #1396
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    May. 28, 2009
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    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SwtVixen View Post
    In all this, yes, Steph is a villan -- with callous disposal of used up, failed the job horses to kill buyers barns, kill pens and slaughter houses. Its been proven that her horses meet this end.

    But the bigger villan are those who stand idly by and protect this behavior -- using their power to open loopholes...

    By protecting a bad apple, one has to wonder what they don't want leaked about themselves.
    You know, "you watch my back or else"



  17. #1397
    BeTrue Guest

    Default

    Please. Dick Hertz aka Neil Parker. Many of us respect and honor
    what you are doing. But if you have the nerve to blame and write about these
    people please stop hiding behind a fake name. And really stand up for
    what you believe in and man up to your claims. If things
    are going to change we ALL have to be honest. And it's not fair
    to slam these people and hide behind a charactor. We owe to eachother good
    or bad to fix this face to face. How honest are true are all of you if you accuse
    these people of doing wrong but can't be honest enough to own your own words. I just don't think it's fair. You are not judge and jury. Don't let this fight go in the wrong direction be true to the horses and yourself.



  18. #1398
    Join Date
    Jun. 6, 2010
    Posts
    321

    Default Dysfunctional Racetrack

    For those of us who have had a bad job, or a bad marriage, or some similar unnacceptable situation in their lives can surely relate to this.

    When you live with something lousy for a long enough time you just start to think something that sucks is normal as you become more and more numbed to it.

    Can anybody here tell me why the ice house was locked all day today? Can anybody tell me why Stephanie Beatty is the only one with a key to it?

    It is an absolute disgrace that horsemen should need to go up to the corner store to buy ice when every other racetrack in the world has an always open ice house. WTF people?! This is unnacceptable!

    Any chance this situation might be brought up at tomorrow's meeting? Due to an out of town commitment this poster will be unable to attend but certainly hope it goes well.
    "I am going to have horse racing as my business, and my hobby will be punishing each and every one of you pinheads, so happy blogging you have my attention"
    Michael Gill-2010



  19. #1399
    Join Date
    May. 30, 2010
    Posts
    231

    Default

    BeTrue ... you obviously have not read the thread.. the whole thread. Throughout, it states the discrepancy (defined: irregularities of distribution) treatment of horseman.

    And when one speaks up/out/about/or in general defense --heres an example of what happens next> FACT: someone leaked the letter Mike Papadda wrote about the events surrounding the breakdown of his horse on the track. He wrote this hoping to bring this problem to attention for solution; but what happened next was the impending loss of 2 stalls. When this became public, in a face saving motion, he did not lose his stalls.

    FACT: If many of the people here were to disclose their identities --- fates such as that would decend upon them...
    *they* would *play dirty* without a second thought to keep their status quo in balance.

    As Dick Hertz says: Corruption is a dirty word.
    Its not in someone elses backyard anymore....... your Pres brought it home.
    Racing>Business As Usual @PN



  20. #1400
    Join Date
    Oct. 8, 2002
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    Maryland
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    9,750

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    Quote Originally Posted by Racetrack Jack View Post
    You use the word euthanasia very frequently and casually like it is nothing and to make statements like "This is not a dumping ground for their track trash" and "Unsound chronic horses need not clog up the works." ... With your statements and attitude I wouldn't recommend that you run any rescue or retirement program.
    That's my 2 cents worth.
    I agree with Judy. Would not have phrased it the same way, and it has nothing to do with taking euthanasia lightly. I don't, and I don't know anybody who does.

    Unfortunately, what I *do* know from my short time in ex-racehorse rehoming is that finding real, good, long term homes for pasture sound horses is near impossible. Those homes are out there, for sure, but there might be one such home for every ten horses in that position.

    Euthanasia sucks, and it sucks when the horse could be a companion animal. But those homes just AREN'T there for all of them. If you know of a bunch of them, feel free to pass names along because I would love to have those contacts.

    It's sad, and it sucks, but rescues and rehoming agencies and volunteers shouldn't be warehousing horses that are broken by the racing industry, should they? Shouldn't the very people who put the horses in that position at least be taking responsibility for it? Perhaps if more had to hold that rope because the horse has no real future and the homes aren't there they'd think twice before that last joint injection to run the horse just one more time.

    (wow. That sounds so bitter. I don't mean to, I'm a pretty positive person, and I love racing - as much as I can anyway - and I love ex racehorses, even the broken ones. But reality is reality. What Judy described in her post is probably the best way to get the maximum number of re-homeable horses into new, productive careers. And heck, the euth part SUCKS but when people realize the financial benefit to them of not racing that one last time, and not tapping the joint again, maybe less of it will be needed because it will be a moot point. A girl can dream.)
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.



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