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  1. #1
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    Feb. 25, 2011
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    Default Why Keep Breeding? A Rant.

    So frustrating.

    I follow the careers of my horse's progeny and one of the offspring, a mare, is now a broodmare after a spectacularly unsuccessful racing career (less than $10,000 in earnings after racing more than a dozen starts). I just noticed a new baby on equibase, which will be her sixth baby of racing age. Of the five that raced, only two made barely over $10,000. The other three made a few hundred. None of the horses, including the dam, had an E figure higher than 70.

    So, why? Why do these people keep breeding this mare who was not a good race horse and has not produced any successful runners? I just don't get it. I really don't.

    I know this scenario happens a lot; I know it is not unique, but boy is it ever frustrating and heartbreaking because I know some of those horses will not end up well.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Default

    Could it be some sort of Frankenstein complex ?

    The thrill of "creating" just because you can, is not a new phenomenon. It does have terrible consequences and I am sorry that you are having to witness it.

    Hopefully these people are wealthy as well as ignorant and are racing the animals themselves and will retire them to the farm. Somehow I feel that this is not the case, or you would not be concerned.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 21, 2014
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    37

    Default

    Or issue w/addiction ?
    I know one TB breeder who has a VERY addictive personality. He doesn't geld anything & ALL mares are bred each year. They breed everything on his farm REGARDLESS of performance records or conformation. While some have actually raced & won large sums. Others have not even been halter broke.
    One of the breeding stallions is a wobbler !!!
    WHY ???
    Grits & Gravity

    Disclosure Time ~ I'm not ur vet BLAH BLAH or ur consultant ~ IMHO~ MayB a conflict of interest BLAH BLAH !!!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2013
    Posts
    17

    Default Too many horses with no homes

    Quote Originally Posted by PonyTales View Post
    Or issue w/addiction ?
    I know one TB breeder who has a VERY addictive personality. He doesn't geld anything & ALL mares are bred each year. They breed everything on his farm REGARDLESS of performance records or conformation. While some have actually raced & won large sums. Others have not even been halter broke.
    One of the breeding stallions is a wobbler !!!
    WHY ???
    I almost feek like it turns into a sicknessmfor people. I am a firm believer that there should be more laws or certification processes to breeding any animals.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2006
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    Middle Tennessee
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    Default

    I don't get it either, as TBs are too expensive to breed without a plan or consideration. They are expensive to keep and expensive to race.

    But maybe they see something in the mare or her offspring that encourages them that there truly is something worth passing on. Or maybe her offspring truly do have potential, but have been subject of a lot of bad luck. Or maybe they just like the mare and her babies.

    While I don't condone breeding without good reason or purpose, I truly don't see much problem with it if you are responsible for the horses. If the breeder is breeding for his/herself and providing care or good homes for their foals after their careers are finished, there is not much of an issue. But if they are trying to profit by putting these cheap foals out there at various sales to become everyone else's problem, that's not cool.
    Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 8, 2009
    Posts
    118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyPie View Post
    So frustrating.

    I follow the careers of my horse's progeny and one of the offspring, a mare, is now a broodmare after a spectacularly unsuccessful racing career (less than $10,000 in earnings after racing more than a dozen starts). I just noticed a new baby on equibase, which will be her sixth baby of racing age. Of the five that raced, only two made barely over $10,000. The other three made a few hundred. None of the horses, including the dam, had an E figure higher than 70.

    So, why? Why do these people keep breeding this mare who was not a good race horse and has not produced any successful runners? I just don't get it. I really don't.

    I know this scenario happens a lot; I know it is not unique, but boy is it ever frustrating and heartbreaking because I know some of those horses will not end up well.
    I see your point, but the allure of industry is that special horse that brings its connections money and fame. Without risks involved in breeding and sales markets the industry doesn't survive. Recent production is on the decline and horses available for the track are becoming more difficult to find.

    The mare "Once Double" is an example.


    http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/once+double

    Not much to come of her offspring, unless bred to one particular unproductive stallion.

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/ole+bob+bowers

    I realize this is an exceptional circumstance, but if the connections of this mare and stallion had used your thinking the horseracing world would be absent the joy and thrill of the great JOHN HENRY.

    JMHO, but we just have to hope and pray that our actions and the actions of our counterparts are thoughtful and well intended. Humanity is just what it is.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
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    4,799

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PonyTales View Post
    Or issue w/addiction ?
    I know one TB breeder who has a VERY addictive personality. He doesn't geld anything & ALL mares are bred each year. They breed everything on his farm REGARDLESS of performance records or conformation. While some have actually raced & won large sums. Others have not even been halter broke.
    One of the breeding stallions is a wobbler !!!
    WHY ???
    Apparently, to keep those trucks filled running to Mexico and Canada. Someone needs to take them to New Holland one dark and stormy night and show them up-close-and-personal what happens.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyPie View Post
    So frustrating.

    I follow the careers of my horse's progeny and one of the offspring, a mare, is now a broodmare after a spectacularly unsuccessful racing career (less than $10,000 in earnings after racing more than a dozen starts). I just noticed a new baby on equibase, which will be her sixth baby of racing age. Of the five that raced, only two made barely over $10,000. The other three made a few hundred. None of the horses, including the dam, had an E figure higher than 70.

    So, why? Why do these people keep breeding this mare who was not a good race horse and has not produced any successful runners? I just don't get it. I really don't.

    I know this scenario happens a lot; I know it is not unique, but boy is it ever frustrating and heartbreaking because I know some of those horses will not end up well.
    Why don't you mosey on over to the sporthorse forum and ask the same question?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    7 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2008
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    NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Why don't you mosey on over to the sporthorse forum and ask the same question?
    what is the point of this post? to be defensive?
    AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyPie View Post
    So frustrating.

    I follow the careers of my horse's progeny and one of the offspring, a mare, is now a broodmare after a spectacularly unsuccessful racing career (less than $10,000 in earnings after racing more than a dozen starts). I just noticed a new baby on equibase, which will be her sixth baby of racing age. Of the five that raced, only two made barely over $10,000. The other three made a few hundred. None of the horses, including the dam, had an E figure higher than 70.

    So, why? Why do these people keep breeding this mare who was not a good race horse and has not produced any successful runners? I just don't get it. I really don't.

    I know this scenario happens a lot; I know it is not unique, but boy is it ever frustrating and heartbreaking because I know some of those horses will not end up well.
    Why do you keep breeding your horse?


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles
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    989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by equinelover4ever View Post
    Why do you keep breeding your horse?
    I'm going to guess that the original poster has a stallion in California. There are breeding incentives in place for stallions who can get winners on the track. But you have to breed the foals and get the winners. Those incentives are probably why owners took shots on Cees Tizzy and Smokester and Lucky Pulpit in the first place.

    However every Smokester and Cees Tizzy mare didn't deserve a chance to become a broodmare even though the stallion himself was somewhat successful.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Apr. 23, 2004
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    Los Angeles
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    Default

    It amazes me sometimes how many catalog pages there are with more white space than print. It is like the breeders don't understand what that looks like before the yearling arrives at the sale.



  13. #13
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    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Northeast
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
    what is the point of this post? to be defensive?
    A lot of OTTB's do make it the the eventing world. Not all of them are 4*, but many at the lower levels.

    Have you looked in your own backyard?
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Why don't you mosey on over to the sporthorse forum and ask the same question?
    The horses I'm discussing are race horses. I hope that some have been used for sport after their careers, but there is no evidence of that. This is a breeding issue and I considered whether to post here, Sport Horse Breeding, or Off Course, but decided to use this forum since all the horse have raced or are racing and the owner of my mare's daughter seems to deal exclusively with Thoroughbred racing of his own stock; not breeding for sales.

    So I agree this topic could go in the other forum but I do not think it is out of place here.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Feb. 25, 2011
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    So California
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by equinelover4ever View Post
    Why do you keep breeding your horse?
    I am not a breeder and never have been. My mares were bred by previous owners.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Feb. 25, 2011
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    So California
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pronzini View Post
    I'm going to guess that the original poster has a stallion in California. There are breeding incentives in place for stallions who can get winners on the track. But you have to breed the foals and get the winners. Those incentives are probably why owners took shots on Cees Tizzy and Smokester and Lucky Pulpit in the first place.

    However every Smokester and Cees Tizzy mare didn't deserve a chance to become a broodmare even though the stallion himself was somewhat successful.
    No, I do not own a stallion and I am not in the breeding business.



  17. #17
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    Apr. 14, 2008
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    NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by merrygoround View Post
    A lot of OTTB's do make it the the eventing world. Not all of them are 4*, but many at the lower levels.

    Have you looked in your own backyard?
    I am not sure where you are going with this. I said nothing about breeding whatsoever. I was just wondering why the poster I quoted felt the need to even post. She wasn't under attack.
    AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Does one need to be under attack to post? I had no idea!
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Jan. 7, 2001
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    Usually too far from the barn
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    Hope springs eternal for most breeders. Every spring brings the hope that THIS foal (however slow it's near relations) will be the outlier. He will be the John Henry or the California Chrome or even a moderate winner. If, at some point a trainer indicated that one of the youngsters from the dam "could run a little" before injury or other problem halted them, the breeder has hope.
    F O.B
    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Apr. 14, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by merrygoround View Post
    Does one need to be under attack to post? I had no idea!
    And I had no idea your margarita titer was so low!
    AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012



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