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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 2, 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default BM using boarder's equipment...what would you do?

    A little background first...when I first moved to the facility where I board, it was leased by one person, and then she sub-leased half of it to another person. I boarded with the first lessor. The farm was split into "English" and "Western." One end was for those of us that rode english,and western on the other. The ring was open to both, but there was a separate empty field and dressage ring restricted to the "English" riders. We rode in the joint ring a few times, but when we tried to use the few small jumps that were in the arena, we were told in no uncertain terms that those belonged to the "Western" sub-lessor and we were not to touch them. We wound up building our own jumps, and with our BM's permission, setting them up in the field, for our use and for the few lessons that I teach. The sub-lessor's teenage daughter also teaches beginner lessons there, both English and Western. A few months ago, the original lessor of the farm moved to her own place, and the sub-lessor took over the whole thing. at that time, we were told that although our boarding arrangements would remain the same, the whole facility would now be open to all. The new barn manager has not purchased cross-ties, mats for the barn aisles, hoses for the wash racks or water tubs to replace those taken by the previous barn manager. Those of us at the "english" end paid for those items ourselves. However, the barn manager and her daughter frequently use our end of the barn, which has those amenities, for their own horses and for lessons, since it's closer to their tack room. It's caused problems a few times, particularly since that end of the barn is set up to accomodate my blind horse, who has to be within smelling distance of his guide horse or he gets very stressed. They are good about moving those horses when asked, but I have to wait around while they're doing that, and frequently I only have a little time to spend with my horses and get my ride time cut short. We've been trying to be nice, and get along, so we've all (the English riders) "shared" our stuff, even though we're the only ones actually sharing. Today, though, I was pretty distressed to see pictures on Facebook of the BM's daughter using our nice new jumps to teach camp and lessons. I'm upset for a couple of reasons...one, these people are not good about taking care of stuff. They leave things lying around all of the time. Two, we paid for those jumps, and my husband spent a lot of time building them. I don't appreciate another instructor profiting from them. Three, I'm worried about liability. This teenager has no business teaching at all, has students falling off all of the time, and I'm not sure she's even insured. I don't know if you can be insured at 16. I was ok with fellow boarders using the jumps, as long as they were careful, but this is different. I don't want to leave this barn because it's hard for my blind horse to adapt to new surroundings, but I'm already getting frustrated. What would you guys do?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2006
    Posts
    1,112

    Default

    Move.
    Did you know, today is yesterdays tomorrow and what you would leave for tomorrow you should do today?
    I am pro-Slaughter


    18 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    11,500

    Default

    First, I'm breaking this into paragraphs because my eyes just glazed over. My response will be on the back end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spydersmom View Post
    A little background first...when I first moved to the facility where I board, it was leased by one person, and then she sub-leased half of it to another person. I boarded with the first lessor. The farm was split into "English" and "Western." One end was for those of us that rode english,and western on the other. The ring was open to both, but there was a separate empty field and dressage ring restricted to the "English" riders. We rode in the joint ring a few times, but when we tried to use the few small jumps that were in the arena, we were told in no uncertain terms that those belonged to the "Western" sub-lessor and we were not to touch them. We wound up building our own jumps, and with our BM's permission, setting them up in the field, for our use and for the few lessons that I teach. The sub-lessor's teenage daughter also teaches beginner lessons there, both English and Western.

    A few months ago, the original lessor of the farm moved to her own place, and the sub-lessor took over the whole thing. at that time, we were told that although our boarding arrangements would remain the same, the whole facility would now be open to all.

    The new barn manager has not purchased cross-ties, mats for the barn aisles, hoses for the wash racks or water tubs to replace those taken by the previous barn manager. Those of us at the "english" end paid for those items ourselves. However, the barn manager and her daughter frequently use our end of the barn, which has those amenities, for their own horses and for lessons, since it's closer to their tack room.

    It's caused problems a few times, particularly since that end of the barn is set up to accomodate my blind horse, who has to be within smelling distance of his guide horse or he gets very stressed. They are good about moving those horses when asked, but I have to wait around while they're doing that, and frequently I only have a little time to spend with my horses and get my ride time cut short.

    We've been trying to be nice, and get along, so we've all (the English riders) "shared" our stuff, even though we're the only ones actually sharing. Today, though, I was pretty distressed to see pictures on Facebook of the BM's daughter using our nice new jumps to teach camp and lessons.

    I'm upset for a couple of reasons...one, these people are not good about taking care of stuff. They leave things lying around all of the time. Two, we paid for those jumps, and my husband spent a lot of time building them. I don't appreciate another instructor profiting from them. Three, I'm worried about liability. This teenager has no business teaching at all, has students falling off all of the time, and I'm not sure she's even insured. I don't know if you can be insured at 16. I was ok with fellow boarders using the jumps, as long as they were careful, but this is different. I don't want to leave this barn because it's hard for my blind horse to adapt to new surroundings, but I'm already getting frustrated. What would you guys do?
    You need to talk to the current BM. If your stuff is "your stuff" then you need to protect it. You have no liability really. But you guys are operating in a co-op style that doesn't fit the current situation.

    I'd not leave my stuff out for others to use if I wasn't being compensated OR was worried they'd ruin it. But most boarding facilities don't let you just leave your stuff out there either.

    Have you had a convo with the new BM yet? If not, do it. Just get it out there.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


    12 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 1999
    Location
    Shangri-LA
    Posts
    2,573

    Default

    Can you prove or do you have something that says you purchased those items? If yes, then pack up what belongs to you and remove them from the barn see if they care enough to replace them. I would suspect they will accuse you of stealing barn equipment.

    Take the jumps home, let them know they are your's and the barn needs to provide their own for lessons. Keep a hose, water tub, cross ties in your car or in a locked trunk so you still have access to use them.

    Otherwise, move.
    "My treasures do not chink or gleam, they glitter in the sun and neigh at night."
    ~Gypsy saying


    12 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    940

    Default

    Okay, so if this is the barn *manager*, who is the *owner*? Is the owner a different person that you could talk to to help resolve the situation? Otherwise, I would just say something nicely or I know it's a pain, and I am sure the jump stuff is heavy, but put in away and lock it up or something so she doesn't have access- is that possible? At some point, I would talk to this person and let her know that she needs to ask. Or start using her stuff!!

    God, sometimes I truly hate boarding. What a pain....


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 17, 2012
    Posts
    1,674

    Default

    Lock up your stuff or take it home. If you can't so that, put them somewhere out of the arena and remove all of the jump cups.

    You need to have a conversation with them about the use of the space and items.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2015
    Posts
    48

    Default

    So basically you built a structure on someone's property and want to have your own set of rules for who gets to use that structure? I don't see how that could ever work without having it in a contract for everyone who uses the facility. If you want to be able to dictate who gets to use what and when, I would suggest you lease/purchase your own facility where you can establish your own rules.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2009
    Posts
    9,400

    Default Start finding a new barn & schedule a 'meeting' with BM and equipment owners .


    Yes ! I would be irritated also •

    First start NOW looking for a new barn .. In case !

    * Schedule a meeting with BM and the 'owners' of the jumps ....equipment ...

    Hopefully there is just 'fuzziness' in ownership
    of equipment and jumps ... well we can hope


    It is rarely a good idea for people to 'use' others horse equipment

    especially
    without permission •

    Be calm - organized - and crystal clear on ownership and boundaries •

    Good Luck !

    * be aware this could go 'south' fast !


    ** husband who built jumps should be in attendance at meeting ...

    be prepared to remove jumps after the meeting if things deteriorate !

    Zu Zu Bailey " IT"S A WONDERFUL LIFE !"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2009
    Posts
    1,271

    Default

    If the uninsured teenager kills some one while using your jumps, you very well could be held liable in the resulting lawsuit, since you KNEW she was using them and did not forbid her from doing so. (This is what my insurance co told me when a boarder asked if she could use my jump equipment outside of my lessons)


    11 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    12,189

    Default

    Speak to the barn owner and tell them that you do not want the other "barn" using your jumps or equipment. You can't prevent them from using the facility but they don't have to use your stuff and that needs to be made clear. It sounds like it has not been.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arlosmine View Post
    If the uninsured teenager kills some one while using your jumps, you very well could be held liable in the resulting lawsuit, since you KNEW she was using them and did not forbid her from doing so. (This is what my insurance co told me when a boarder asked if she could use my jump equipment outside of my lessons)
    Yep, I thought of that as well...liability is there.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    So basically you built a structure on someone's property and want to have your own set of rules for who gets to use that structure? I don't see how that could ever work without having it in a contract for everyone who uses the facility. If you want to be able to dictate who gets to use what and when, I would suggest you lease/purchase your own facility where you can establish your own rules.
    WOW - what structure? Where I come from jumps are jumps not structures.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shine View Post
    WOW - what structure? Where I come from jumps are jumps not structures.
    Yup, that's what I was going to mention. Jumps are mobile and do not meet the criteria of a structure. If the OP had built, say, a separate tack room or turnout or arena or something those would be considered structures.

    I would move simply because it sounds like there is not enough stability, oversight, and communication going on there. If you are dead set on staying, I agree that you should either point-blank refuse permission for the teenager to use the jumps or start taking things home and insisting that the new BM get her own stuff. The latter, however, will unfortunately probably result in the BM throwing a tanty and telling you that you cannot use any of the stuff she buys.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2015
    Posts
    48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shine View Post
    WOW - what structure? Where I come from jumps are jumps not structures.
    Yes, that was a poor way of me to categorize them but I couldn't think of another word at the time. My apologies. I guess I was trying to express that I think the situation will not end well if she stays and tries to enforce selective use of the jumps.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2010
    Posts
    1,934

    Default

    Your OP confuses me because I can't tell if you are using "lessor" correctly or not. A "lessor" is someone who leases something to someone else, who is the "lessee."

    I think you are using "lessor" to refer to the actual "lessee." ???
    RoanPonyMare


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    33,897

    Default

    In some of these set ups anything added to the barn becomes part of the barn. Check your contract.

    If you left the jumps out, sorry but that's asking for it. You need to remove them and store them in your trailer or stack them so you can get a chain and lock around them...

    ....until you find another barn because you need to move. This is not going to get better. Is the owner involved at all? Is your contract still valid with the sub lease situation? Regardless, it's a mess you can't fix.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
    Location
    The rocky part of KY
    Posts
    10,189

    Default

    Why nitpick over whether a jump is a structure or a jump. Regardless it's not a permanently affixed property that doesn't belong to the barn and wasn't provided by the barn.

    I've been in the middle of barn leasing situations and they can be really confusing, sounds like yours is.
    When the person you boarded with, previous BM, left did the person who had sub let from her take over the entire barn?

    If so did you at any time have a written agreement with your previous BM about the fixtures you had provided, like jumps, and do you have any agreement with the latest BM, whoever that happens to be, that you would have to provide the hoses and mats and water tubs as your own personal property because the barn was too cheap and or disorganized to replace the ones that got removed?

    And if you did, what did it say? Did it say that your items would revert to barn property or remain yours to be removed when you left, or . . . nothing?

    I'd roll those hoses up and put them away in a locked box, and the same with the cross ties, and I'd chain up the jumps too until there's an agreement in place or I moved on out of there.

    There needs to be a delineation of what property belongs to what entity at the barn and that's the only way I've ever seen this sort of thing work at places like Equestrian Centers with multiple trainers and boarders.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    You will never be able to stop someone who's "in charge" from using/appropriating/stealing your stuff. Even locking things up generally results in you being accused of "stealing" what is now viewed as barn property. Having lost tens of thousads of dollars in equipment/tack/hardware/tools, I will never, ever,ever again make or purchase or provide anything for any facility I don't own. Take what you can home asap. Keep minimal and clearly labelled personal tack/equipment at the barn. If jumps/etc are necessary, and farm doesn't have and won't povide, move to a place that has its own.
    Let me apologize in advance.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2009
    Posts
    2,501

    Default

    I think you have a very awkward situation on your hands. I agree with others that your best bet is to lock everything up that you possibly can when you are not at the barn. You also may want to just move certain stuff home and not use it for a while. I think it is difficult at best to "claim" certain communal areas that you have upgraded/stocked as your own unless this is specifically enforced by management. Barn aisles, tie areas, grooming areas, etc. are typically considered communal areas. From your post I see that in the past that the communal areas were divided up, but that is no longer how the barn is operating and you can't control that.

    As far as the jumps, I would remove them or lock them up. Of course, if you lock them up somewhere on site, you could potentially (reasonably) be expected to pay a storage fee. It is wrong of others to be using your jumps without your permission, but those others might not know that you do not want them using your property. It's not a crazy stretch of the imagination for someone to assume that amenities (like jumps) that are set up in common areas of a boarding facility are for everyone's use, or that because you left the jumps out you don't care if other people use them.

    Just as a matter of practicality, I think it is very difficult to put something out/set something up in a common area of a boarding facility and then say that only certain people can use it. It would be impossible to enforce this unless you are there all the time or lock stuff up. I think that a conversation with the BM might be helpful, but OTOH, I think that it is going to be an uphill battle for the "English" boarders to claim one end of the barn and also to keep people from using items that are set out in communal areas if the management does not buy into the idea.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 31, 2011
    Location
    southeast Georgia
    Posts
    3,970

    Default

    I totally agree with BeeHoney above. Once you place something in a communal area, even if you bought it yourself and do not intend to "donate" it, it's unreasonable to expect others not to use it.

    As far as the jumps are concerned, it's kind of silly to lock them up or take them home because then you wouldn't be able to use them either. On the other hand, as others have indicated, liability could be an issue. I would speak to BO about them. Bring a receipt for the materials (if you have one) and come up with a reasonable estimate for your DH's labor in building them. Offer to sell them to the barn, maybe for a reduction on your board. If she agrees, you're fine. If not, then you can either decide to donate them or take them home. In any case, I really don't think you can leave them set up and then expect others not to use them.

    The other equipment in the barn that people are using without permission (cross ties, aisle mats, etc.) could be handled the same way if there is any record of who bought what.
    I heard a neigh. Oh, such a brisk and melodious neigh as that was! My very heart leaped with delight at the sound. --Nathaniel Hawthorne


    6 members found this post helpful.

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