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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2007
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    Illinois, USA
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    Unhappy The "TAP" method (endospink) is spreading like wildfire.. opinions?

    I've always had a lot of respect for the user 'endospink' on youtube, with his training videos of unruly TBs that are on their last chances, it's either behave or off to the meatruck.

    But when he started marketing his own way to lay down horses, I started getting a little unsure about him. And now I see this:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=RT3cbS7wEqk

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=HABWbpIEOqM

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=3mSO8bGj2I8

    The second two are the same horse, but it's concerning that now any old joe thinks they can lie a horse down after buying this special method.

    And in the first video.. the horse had no behavioral issues! They wanted to do it to "create a better connection" with the horse or something. I'm sorry, but I find that terrible.

    I think folks are forgetting that this "tap" method is a euphemism for laying a horse down. No it's not quite as forceful, but you do really think the horse is enjoying it? I'd guess not.

    And why ANYONE would put a horse who is good ALREADY through this, I have no idea. Poor horses.

    Not to mention the dangers this has for the person, if the horse starts flailing on their way down or when attempting to get up, both these folks would've gotten kicked apart.

    What do you guys think?
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2001
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    Colorado, a suburb of Los Angeles
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    6,660

    Default

    PT Barnum said it best "there's one born every minute"



  3. #3
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    Aug. 30, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BarbB View Post
    PT Barnum said it best "there's one born every minute"
    I suppose.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  4. #4
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    Sep. 1, 2004
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    north of Atlanta GA
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    I have respect for Endo but think this technique (sp) doesn't need to be available to the general public. I think it will be abused by morons who have no business training horses.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Aug. 30, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by bird4416 View Post
    I have respect for Endo but think this technique (sp) doesn't need to be available to the general public. I think it will be abused by morons who have no business training horses.
    Well said, I agree. I just know someone's going to get hurt when trying it eventually, too.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2001
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
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    Default

    There's a lot worse crap on the internet - just search "proven spots" on you tube! I have no problems with the man.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton



  7. #7
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    Aug. 12, 2001
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    Trailer Trash Ammy!
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    Yep, what Bird said.



  8. #8
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    Nov. 13, 2005
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    Kentucky
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    Default

    I agree with Hitch. Proven spots is far, far scarier.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2006
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    Why do people do such weeeiiird stuff!

    Just ride your d@mn horse!! No need to lay it down and do all kinds of strange crap to it!

    I know some horses that would bash your face in if you tried that business with them.

    Ugh.

    (I do think Endo has his place in the horseworld however marketing these techniques to the general public is a..... nightmare.)
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitchinmygetalong View Post
    There's a lot worse crap on the internet - just search "proven spots" on you tube! I have no problems with the man.
    I've seen the whole proven spots thing, including the hogtieing her horse. While that's really bad, that doesn't make this stuff somehow good by comparison. It's still a bad idea, for general horse and rider.

    Flash; well said.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2008
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    FL
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    WTF!!!!!! This is supposed to accomplish WHAT????!!!!Crazy friggin' idiots----a reaaally good way to get hurt
    Cowboy--the gentleman & Go Baby Go--the pony with attitude!!


    Crayola posse---Indigo



  12. #12
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    Aug. 30, 2007
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    Illinois, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by flying horse 72 View Post
    WTF!!!!!! This is supposed to accomplish WHAT????!!!!Crazy friggin' idiots----a reaaally good way to get hurt
    In horses that are really on their last chance, it DOES seem to have a place (in this inperfect world, anyways). But on everyday run of the mill horses? I agree 100%.
    Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Jun. 6, 2007
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    I have used it few times..not to point of laying them down..no need with the horses I used it on, just to the point of submission. There is no need for any real physical force, it just seems to be positioning. As hard as I've tried, I can't figure out why it works..but it does. But explain acupuncture anaesthesia, or hypnotism to me..???..but that works too. The horses are not distressed during or after, and particularly in one case, a really obnoxious yearling colt, which wouldn't even allow me to touch his face, days and weeks later is still quite OK with it...???
    * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
    Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
    NO! What was the question?



  14. #14
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    May. 4, 2003
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    Canada
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    I've seen the "war bridle" used for an extreme case, but it is not my thing. Plain old fashioned horsemanship is more my style. This Endo guy, seems to have a lot of followers and admirers, but I'm not one of them. The name Spink is even creepy. Can you imagine a bunch of greenhorn newbies with these videos becoming "experts". A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Even with roundpenning one sees horses run and run until they are dripping, with no subtelty involved. The next generation of Youtube videos bragging on their new expertise.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Jun. 6, 2007
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    The 'war bridle' is a force/pain method, and I agree, it is not a good thing, as pretty much all force/pain methods are not that useful...even twitches can go bad on you... I almost never use them, either. And yes, you are right...pretty much anything you 'learn' on the internet can either be be bad from the start or turned into a bad thing by lack of fundamental understanding of the key issues (I sure wouldn't want to learn how to use a chain saw on the internet!!). This is my mantra: data is not information... information is not knowledge....knowledge is not wisdom. The rest is getting into censorship...a whole other issue. Positive /negative informed feedback is the only real way to assess data/information, which... I think...is what this conversation is all about.
    PS..I might be wrong (?!) but I read his 'name' as ..endo's pink..on account of the pink britches!!!?
    * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
    Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
    NO! What was the question?



  16. #16
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    Jun. 6, 2007
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    Hoping to keep this on a discussion level..the method is not about throwing horses...I suggest you review the endo videos. As I previously said, I do not think that force/pain methods are particularly useful (or safe), nor do I believe that using this method to lay down a well behaved horse makes any sense. As I also previously said, with the horses that I have used it on, I did not have to lay them down...just used it enough stop the aggressive reponse. Whether it is from lack of handling, poor training methods, or personality quirks, every once in a while you run into horses whose first response is aggression.These horses are dangerous to whom ever is handling them. Any non-violent method that can address that problem, in my opinion, is a bonus.
    * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
    Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
    NO! What was the question?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
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    15,296

    Default

    its a tool in the tool box for expereinced hands only but dangerous in the wrong hands
    for both horse and owner

    its a bit kit -- thats at the back of brain box in the tool box if all esle fails
    i know how it works always have done its nothing new that he come out with
    in the dealing world its been around for yonks and is only used as a method when all else fails

    but shouldnt be sold to the gerenal public as a saleable item

    endo matey-- be careful who you sell it to, mate lawsuits and all when it goes wrong in some one hands that dont quite get it



  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by goeslikestink View Post
    its a tool in the tool box for expereinced hands only but dangerous in the wrong hands
    for both horse and owner

    its a bit kit -- thats at the back of brain box in the tool box if all esle fails
    i know how it works always have done its nothing new that he come out with
    in the dealing world its been around for yonks and is only used as a method when all else fails

    but shouldnt be sold to the gerenal public as a saleable item

    endo matey-- be careful who you sell it to, mate lawsuits and all when it goes wrong in some one hands that dont quite get it

    I know this could get into the wrong hands Jen, but how do you filter out the good, bad and ugly?

    My site states the TAP is "specifically designed for TRAINERS and other equine PROFESSIONALS" and have thought long and hard about the consequences but always came to the conclusion that the benefits outweigh the other plus in the wrong hands the round pens and carrot sticks will be abused.

    This isn't some money making gimmick, this really works and for years I have been telling people how to do it for free but the costs of sites and PC stuff are starting to adding up so I went one further and broke this down into simple steps and put it out there so there's no more guessing or getting it wrong.

    If the TAP can save a few horses from slaughter or a few people from getting injured, well I think it is worth it.

    I know slightly I lack in the public relations dept but I can this up.

    BTW, "Endospink" was just one of the tries when signing up to youtube because everything was taken, it's just "Endo is pink" or "Endo's pink" nothing more.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2002
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    I thought this was going to be a discussion of Jane Savoie's "tapping" method. LOL.

    Why do people put these things on the internet? I don't care what you call it, it's laying a horse down and can be far from positive for both horse and trainer.
    Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!



  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Stirrup View Post
    I thought this was going to be a discussion of Jane Savoie's "tapping" method. LOL.

    Why do people put these things on the internet? I don't care what you call it, it's laying a horse down and can be far from positive for both horse and trainer.
    Do you even know how it is done ?

    I did a 6 part series that showed laying a starter down and calling the early shots was far less stressful to the horse than letting it run around the pen.

    Do you start horses ?



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