The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    10,974

    Default Dogs: Lipomas and Apple Cider Vinegar

    HISTORY:

    Last May, at 5YO, my dog had an unusual onset of seizure activity. We did a gazillion tests and ruled out everything we could think of except a brain tumor or idiopathic epilepsy (I did not do the MRI, but did do a CSF in case of meningitis/encephalitis and visited a doggy neurologist). He was put on Phenobarb and hasn't had a seizure since we got them under control last June. Dog is at a good weight, is active, and has had no other serious health issues.


    RECENTLY:


    In December, I took my dog in for some of his vaccinations and to check liver enzymes. All was fine. In the last year though, he had developed a skin tag type tumor on his lower eyelid and in November I noticed a lump on his shoulder. Had it biopsied just in case, but it was indeed a lipoma.

    Today, I took him in for the rest of his vaccs and to check his blood ph'brb levels. The tumor on the eye has not grown but a second has begun, the tumor on the shoulder has not grown but a new lipoma has appeared on his ribcage caudal to his leg. Did an FNA and again, a lipoma.

    Of course, he is nearly 6 and he's a lab...so we're approaching what's considered "geriatric" age where such things could plausibly just occur per nature's course.

    BUT....I asked my vet about any ideas she might have on reducing new tumors popping up.

    She said that she had read an article about apple cider vinegar supposedly helping "detoxify/flush" the liver. And that the liver may be responsible for creating these fatty deposits in the form of lipomas.

    MY QUESTION:

    Given my dog's recent history of seizures, the fact that he's on a drug known to affect the liver negatively (though none of our tests have indicated a liver problem), it might make sense that there IS a bit of liver trouble and that MAY be the reason these lipomas are all of a sudden popping up.

    So...I'd like to look into this apple cider vinegar thing. Looking for info or any other suggestions. My vet and I are both open minded to holistic things in conjunction with good Western medicine...but are not the types to use holistic in lieu of good Western medicine or where it has dangerous side effects. But apple cider vinegar is pretty harmless and I'd be happy to try it.

    We're also planning to start weaning him back off the ph'brb after 1 year free of seizures....

    Any thoughts?
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2005
    Location
    Mass.
    Posts
    6,554

    Default

    My 9-yr-old retriever mix has a bunch of lipomas. If you get any more information about the vinegar, I'd be interested in hearing about it. But how in the world would you get the dog to drink the vinegar? ?
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada.
    Posts
    6,145

    Default

    Labs are "THE" breed for lipomas. Unless they grow and interfere with their day to day life, they will not cause problems. Labs are fatty...period. If they are fat, they get lipomas, if they are thin, they want to be fat, so get lipomas!! If they dont have a lipoma, they arent yet initiated into the Lab club.

    I would stay away from feeding a vinegar to my dog. You "may" postpone a lipoma from forming, but you could also create some GI upset.

    There is really no correlation between the liver and lipomas. If you THINK your dog has liver issues, run a liver screen including bile acids.

    Have you done a bromide level on your dog recently for the seizures? If you get that done, your vet can determine when or if you should start weaning off the pheno barb.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2008
    Posts
    81

    Default

    I put a wee bit of ACV into the pets water dish for various reasons. ACV for liver flush is a new one to me.
    Have you maybe tried a liver detox, or giving your dog milkthistle extract?
    If you can, try and hunt down a homeopathic vet for some answers if you are curious about alternative healing.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 31, 2007
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    4,696

    Default

    I have a huge Lipoma that is growing a dog. I am not sure which is bigger the collective tumors or the dog. He is fine. It will eventually not be fine, but he is long past his expected life span as it is.

    When the first 2 appeared the Vet said it was from a drug called Baytrille (sp) he got for some unknown sickness. He got sick and was never diagnosed, but he got better in a few days so we left it alone.

    But within a month he had 2 lumps on his neck. They said it was common after getting that drug. However, he was also getting older and it may have been coincidental.

    Now he has at least 7 I can see and feel on the outside and many on the inside I can palpate if I want to make myself anxious. One of his ribcage is about a DD size.

    Its freaky, but the danger of operating was more risky then me just not freaking out when I look at them. But he has kept on keeping on, is sound and eating well and pain free and almost 15.

    Big dog, half greyhound, should be dead. If is liver caused this problem I think his liver would have killed him years ago. I sort of think that may be true for any organ. He is pretty much an old dog with huge lumps but nothing seems to be killing him yet at all.

    He has outlived all the dogs I know that did get then removed.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,312

    Default

    I'd start with asking the vet where she read the article, read it for yourself, and decide. I'm going to guess right off the top of my head that this was not an article from any scholarly or scientific source, but hey--I could be wrong.

    Ah, the miracles attributed to humble old acetic acid.
    Click here before you buy.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,970

    Default

    My big ole lab has a bunch of lipomas, but he also has doggie lymphoma on his spleen and in his lungs. He was only supposed to have a couple of months about 6 months ago, but he still seems fine. He doesn't get ACV, although I'd be interested in any research about it - the lipoma on his side is huge and it bothers me.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,312

    Default

    Missed this one.

    I have a huge Lipoma that is growing a dog.
    Click here before you buy.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2007
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Hi Buddyroo!!!
    Glad to hear that your pup has been seizure free YAY!!!!

    I did a search on VIN (vet info network) for apple cider vinegar and couldn't find anything other than the fact that random people are saying it works for various things...heartworm preventative, fleas, LS disease, etc. and... there doesnt' seem to be any medical literature condoning it. And none of the vets are even piping up to say it works. I would definitely consider milk thistle or sAME as a liver "helper".

    It might not be a bad idea to find a holistic vet though and see

    Good luck and glad to hear he's doing great



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2008
    Location
    In A World Called Catastrophe
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    I had 5 tumors removed from my now 9 year old mystery mix dog. 2 lipomas, 3 odd ball thankfully benign growths. He has a couple more now. Small.. but I will never put him through the surgery again.
    The whole thing was worrisome! If ACV works giddy up but like others said further info would be great!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2005
    Location
    Southern California - Hemet
    Posts
    1,578

    Default

    My oldest Basenji (estimated age 17) has lots of lipomas. His biggest one is on his side and a bit larger than the size of a golf ball. It's unsightly but it hasn't really grown in the three years I've had him and none of them bother him in any way. I wouldn't consider having lipomas removed unless they were impeding movement or causing discomfort. Of course, I wish he didn't have them at all, but he's a pretty happy very old man so it's all good.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    10,974

    Default

    Thanks guys!

    Hiya Flecken! Thanks for looking for for it.

    I'm always pretty leery of this kind of stuff without finding some sort of data to support the claims. I guess I should be even more specific: independent empirical data that supports efficacy. LOL

    She (my vet) said she read about it in some holistic veterinary journal but couldn't recall which one. Told me that if I found anything else on it to email it to her.

    Thus far, all I've really found are a lot of sites talking about milk thistle or some such. I dunno.

    Oh--and to whomever asked how you'd get a dog to drink it--pour on food. He's a lab. He'll eat socks, wood, rocks and dead things. I doubt the vinegar will slow him down.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2008
    Posts
    869

    Default

    Dobermans take the cake for fatty tumors. I ignore them all unless they are in an "armpit" or somewhere that cause them trouble. Ugly, but harmless.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 15, 2005
    Posts
    3,161

    Default

    We have a 14 year old Chesapeake Bay Retriever who has had big lipomas for years. The vet school wanted to remove the one on her neck 4 years ago, but I was afraid they would inadvertently kill her (group of eager vet students+scalpels+lipoma in area of lots of important blood vessels=potential trouble). The lipomas don't seem to bother our dog, so we haven't done anything about them. We had an annoying tumor removed from her eyelid, but that wasn't a lipoma.

    Tell us if the vinegar works. I admit that I am skeptical.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    12,394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKB View Post
    We have a 14 year old Chesapeake Bay Retriever who has had big lipomas for years. The vet school wanted to remove the one on her neck 4 years ago, but I was afraid they would inadvertently kill her (group of eager vet students+scalpels+lipoma in area of lots of important blood vessels=potential trouble).
    Don't know about the vet school you are dealing with, but I haven't seen one yet that lets students loose in the OR with a scalpel on client dogs.
    Surgical residents. perhaps.

    They *might* let a really good student put in some sutures...
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    8,916

    Default

    Buddy Roo, my English Lab "Punch" developed a lipoma on one eye lid in Dec., and since it was growing and on the underside of the lid, I had the vet remove it in early Jan. She now has a large one growing right behind her left leg. Both are not cancerous. She's just turned 8 on 02.02. and she is the usual overweight hyperactive lab. (I'm an aussie person)
    I didn't know about apple cider vinegar for this, but I'll try it. There was an author years ago who wrote a book claiming it and honey were good for just about everything. It is good for horses, mine always drank it or I mixed some in their feed, and vet said it is good for horses, and I give it to my cats if they eat too much seafood and get cystitis. And I put it on salads.
    Thanks, I'll try it and see if it helps Punch.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    426

    Default

    I'm so glad I'm not alone! My Rottie has a very large (think grapefruit) lyphoma (sp? sorry its' late) that started as a golf ball 2 years ago. It's right where her back leg meets her side and my vet said it would be very difficult to remove due to the lack of tissue available for stiches and her age (almost 7). What worries me now, is that it's growing and has begun, on occasion, to cause her a bit of a "hitch in her get-up", I've also noticed 2 MUCH smaller ones about a month ago.
    I'd love to find something that will minimize them without the risk of surgery~ she had a procedure done back in October and she had a bit of a rough time waking up~ took her almost a week to recover



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
    Posts
    15,870

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seriously_Hunter View Post
    I'd love to find something that will minimize them without the risk of surgery~ she had a procedure done back in October and she had a bit of a rough time waking up~ took her almost a week to recover
    If you have to send your dog back to surgery, ask them to induce her with propofol instead of ketamine. Propofol is tolerated MUCH better than ketamine. My dog had a horrible recovery following her spay (she was induced with ketamine, isoflourane was used during surgery) and came through a tumor removal really, really well following induction with propofol.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    72

    Default

    I am not sure if this is going to be helpful or not but here goes. There is a school of thought in alternative medicine circles that cancer cells do not live well in an alkaline enviroment so some suggest to alkalinyse the body to discourage it. In people ,one adds minerals ,a plant based diet and some say ACV or maybe some sodium bicarb . I have not heard about this in pets but there is lots of info about this in people on the internet. Hope that helps.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    12,394

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simply kim View Post
    I am not sure if this is going to be helpful or not but here goes. There is a school of thought in alternative medicine circles that cancer cells do not live well in an alkaline enviroment so some suggest to alkalinyse the body to discourage it. In people ,one adds minerals ,a plant based diet and some say ACV or maybe some sodium bicarb . I have not heard about this in pets but there is lots of info about this in people on the internet. Hope that helps.
    Leaving aside the fact that the body will act to keep the pH of various fluids in a very narrow range, how would the addition of a weak organic acid act to alkalinize?
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



Similar Threads

  1. Apple cider vinegar for rain rot
    By BrookdaleBay in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: Aug. 20, 2012, 10:03 PM
  2. Apple cider recipe
    By flea in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Dec. 24, 2011, 02:55 PM
  3. Apple Cider Vinegar - is it really that great?
    By mybeau1999 in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: Nov. 11, 2011, 12:47 PM
  4. Apple Cider Vinegar? Turmeric?
    By Firefilly in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Feb. 28, 2011, 05:12 PM
  5. Replies: 141
    Last Post: Feb. 25, 2006, 05:28 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness