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  1. #1
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    Question Selle Francais Association?

    So I am interested in breeding my TB mare to a Selle Francais. I went to look up the associating to see inspection dates and more information, but when I did, I saw that the North American Selle Francais Association, Inc. is no longer established. So, as a rookie, I have no idea where to look for more registration information.

    Could someone please lead me in the right direction?

    Thanks!



  2. #2
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    Maybe you should register your AMERICAN bred horse as American instead of with an association that is in another part of the world and doesn't have any bearing on what you are breeding here in the U.S.

    In other words, would someone in France with a selle francias mare breeding her to an American TB stallion, then register that foal with an American registry? No. They are in France and would register the foal with their home based registry. So why do you think you should take an American TB mare, living in the U.S., bred to a French stallion and then register the foal in France?



  3. #3
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    Default Les Haras Nationaux

    I work at a Selle Francais breeding facility in Florida, and we are doing all registrations through the French registry, Les Haras Nationaux. I have not heard of any inspections since the fall 2007 tour. I don't think they are out of the question, just prohibitively expensive as the inspector would have to come from France. I'm sure there are a few NASFA board members out there in COTH land that can answer this better than me. However, there is a contact in France, and since all this info is available on their website, I don't think they will mind me posting it in this thread. His name is Patrick Clarin, patrick.clerin@haras-nationaux.fr. Try emailing him, he is generally quite helpful.



  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tri View Post
    Maybe you should register your AMERICAN bred horse as American instead of with an association that is in another part of the world and doesn't have any bearing on what you are breeding here in the U.S.

    In other words, would someone in France with a selle francias mare breeding her to an American TB stallion, then register that foal with an American registry? No. They are in France and would register the foal with their home based registry. So why do you think you should take an American TB mare, living in the U.S., bred to a French stallion and then register the foal in France?
    First Off, Im sorry if you had a bad day, But I was NOT saying I was going to register the foal in FRANCE. I had asked for a little direction on where to go since the NORTH AMERICAN association was not longer established. I am not looking to register the foal in another country.

    Next time, you could be a bit nicer, or not comment at all. Hope you day gets better.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelurus View Post
    I work at a Selle Francais breeding facility in Florida, and we are doing all registrations through the French registry, Les Haras Nationaux. I have not heard of any inspections since the fall 2007 tour. I don't think they are out of the question, just prohibitively expensive as the inspector would have to come from France. I'm sure there are a few NASFA board members out there in COTH land that can answer this better than me. However, there is a contact in France, and since all this info is available on their website, I don't think they will mind me posting it in this thread. His name is Patrick Clarin, patrick.clerin@haras-nationaux.fr. Try emailing him, he is generally quite helpful.

    I read a bit more about it, I think I am going to go through the BWP North America reg. since the stallion is approved through them as well.

    Thank you!



  6. #6
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    But I was NOT saying I was going to register the foal in FRANCE
    Uhmm, that is exactly what you would be doing if you register the horse with the Selle Francias organization. And even, if the NORTH AMERICAN ASSOCIATION was still in business, which it is not, YOU WOULD STILL BE REGISTERING THE HORSE IN FRANCE. That is who issues the papers, that is where the papers come from. That is where the studbook is and that is who controls it. Your horse would be considered a FRENCH HORSE and if the horse competed in any FEI events, the points your horse would earn would be credited to the Selle Francias studbook IN FRANCE. Any WBFSH rankings you horse should happen to acheive would be listed under the Selle Francias studbook IN FRANCE.

    So, no bad day here, but sorry if you don't like being told the truth.

    Oh, and BTW, if you register the horse with the BWP, all of the above will apply only with the Belgian registry IN BELGIUM regardless of the NORTH AMERICAN Association of the BWP. The registry IS IN BELGIUM AND YOU ARE REGISTERING YOUR HORSE IN BELGIUM.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tri View Post
    Uhmm, that is exactly what you would be doing if you register the horse with the Selle Francias organization. And even, if the NORTH AMERICAN ASSOCIATION was still in business, which it is not, YOU WOULD STILL BE REGISTERING THE HORSE IN FRANCE. That is who issues the papers, that is where the papers come from. That is where the studbook is and that is who controls it. Your horse would be considered a FRENCH HORSE and if the horse competed in any FEI events, the points your horse would earn would be credited to the Selle Francias studbook IN FRANCE. Any WBFSH rankings you horse should happen to acheive would be listed under the Selle Francias studbook IN FRANCE.

    So, no bad day here, but sorry if you don't like being told the truth.

    Oh, and BTW, if you register the horse with the BWP, all of the above will apply only with the Belgian registry IN BELGIUM regardless of the NORTH AMERICAN Association of the BWP. The registry IS IN BELGIUM AND YOU ARE REGISTERING YOUR HORSE IN BELGIUM.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.


    Wow, maybe you need to take a little bit of time to cool down.


    I purchased a colt in 2006 (he is now a gelding), that was by an approved Selle Francais stallion (he is only approved SF, was never presented for anything else), and out of a Thoroughbred mare.

    During the 2007 tour, his dam was accepted into the Selle Francais registry, with good scores (will have to find the copy I have of her scoresheet to get the exact numbers). At that time my colt (still intact at that time) was also inspected, then rather liked him. Anyways, that is beside the point.

    I heard in early 2008 about the closure of NASFA, and was... irritated... to say the least. I had gotten my colts papers from France, and noticed there was a mistake on them, I contacted NASFA about it, and the individual I talked to said that they had noticed the mistake, but due to the North American office being closed, they didn't bother to send it back. I was never really happy with the customer service when NASFA did exist, and have been much happier dealing directly with France.


    So, Tri, tell me please, what is the problem? Are you saying that the Selle Francais and BWP horses should not exist in the United States? Are you saying that their breeding should not be encouraged? If so, then that is sad. Personally, I see no problem with going directly through France.
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  8. #8
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    Default

    I really cant wait for the stallion owner, who is also a COTH member, to see this.

    Or for that matter, Anyone who owns a warmblood with a TB dam.



  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tri View Post
    Maybe you should register your AMERICAN bred horse as American instead of with an association that is in another part of the world and doesn't have any bearing on what you are breeding here in the U.S.

    In other words, would someone in France with a selle francias mare breeding her to an American TB stallion, then register that foal with an American registry? No. They are in France and would register the foal with their home based registry. So why do you think you should take an American TB mare, living in the U.S., bred to a French stallion and then register the foal in France?
    Wow, someone needs to take a step back. Why do you care so much what she chooses to register her horse as? If the breed association accepts her horse, what does it matter to you?

    Are you trying to say that my SF, who is by a SF approved stallion, out of a SF mare, shouldn't be registered as such simply because he was bred and born in the US? Or are you trying to say that because it's part TB it doesn't deserve to be registered with whatever association the OP chooses and everything that has TB in it should automatically be banned from foreign associations? Either way, I think you are completely out of line.
    A lovely horse is always an experience.... It is an emotional experience of the kind that is spoiled by words. ~Beryl Markham



  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JumperForJoy View Post
    I read a bit more about it, I think I am going to go through the BWP North America reg. since the stallion is approved through them as well.
    Probably the best way to go in this case unless your mare is already approved for SF breeding. I am making an assumption that your mare is not already approved for either SF or Belgium breeding.

    But, if your mare would already be approved for SF breeding it should not be a problem to get SF papers from France. As poster, Kaelurus, stated you could contact Patrick Clerin in France. He has always been helpful to me and responsive to my email questions. But if she is not already approved for SF breeding it might be difficult to get "stud book" papers as I also am unaware of any SF inspections planned here in the US.

    It would be much easier to get your mare approved with the BWP North America and get "stud book" papers. Probably your best option. The BWP incorporated the SF approved stallions into their registry when the NA SF registry closed.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Tri's point, and in a lot of ways I agree with her, is that American breeders will never be recognized or competitive with European breeders if the competition points their foals accrue are credited to European registries. If I want a world class jumper, and KWPN claims to be the Number One Registry worldwide for jumpers, I'll look very hard at KWPN horses in HOLLAND, in part because all of the KWPN-NA points are given to Holland, which moves them up in the world rankings (This is assuming that American bred KWPNs actually get points).

    If registries are registries and not breeds, why should North Americans register American bred horses with regional European registries--that, by law in their own countries, have to give some sort of registration to all horses that are presented to them?
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  12. #12
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    Default

    [QUOTE=sfstable;3880122]Probably the best way to go in this case unless your mare is already approved for SF breeding. I am making an assumption that your mare is not already approved for either SF or Belgium breeding.[QUOTE]

    Yes, she is not. I think going through the Belgium reg. to save time and money. Either way, it’s still the same stud.

    If someone hears of a SF inspection this year in the states, please let me know. I will email Patrick Clerin and ask him if any are scheduled as of yet.

    Thanks for the input!



  13. #13
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    Default

    Are you trying to say that my SF, who is by a SF approved stallion, out of a SF mare, shouldn't be registered as such simply because he was bred and born in the US?
    Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. And Vineyridge, thank you!

    Warmbloods are named for their region. 5 full siblings born in 5 different countries would be registered in their own country's studbook, so 5 full siblings could be Oldenburg, KWPN, BWP, Rhinelander, Hanoverian or whatever.

    So, NO. It doesn't make sense to breed wbs in the U.S. and then register them to a foreign country, marketing your foal as a foreign sporthorse product and increasing any points accrued in competition for that foreign studbook.

    Americans breeding sporthorses in the U.S. neet to unite together to create the sporthorse industry here in the U.S. and push their sporthorse product forward as a viable, competitve product, earning any int'l points as AMERICAN.

    I am a proponent of building the sporthorse industry HERE instead of literally PAYING for a foreign country to come in and take it away.

    But, to the OP, you obviously didn't even realize that you were registering your horse in France, or Belgium with the course of action you are considering. But that is what you are doing.



  14. #14
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    Default

    Only half kidding but this is what some breeders sound like:

    Breeders want everybody to support NA breeders
    but you register your horses with EU registries
    Breeders want to be in a EU registry
    but complain that there is no US WB identity for marketing
    but don't like it when the end user insists on a EU horse cause
    that's what's winning.



  15. #15
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    I've said that for a long time and I"m not kidding in the least.

    Yeah, go ahead and send all the money out of the country and then whine whine whine when the buyer also wants to go out of the country, and there isn't any money left here to fund U.S. breeder & young horse programs.... that is if the EU registries were interested in spending the money they collect from U.S. breeders actually IN THE U.S. which they aren't. But they have fabulous programs over there!!



  16. #16
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    Default

    Tri - you're the one that's whining endlessly! You're upset that your AWS or AWR horses aren't getting recognition and so you try to lay the blame on the European registries. And then when you run out of argument you drag up the old Dutch mare you used to own - sure, that makes you an expert in all things concerning Euro warmbloods!

    You're trying to get folks incited by making completely unfounded statements like all monies collected by the Euro registries here going to Europe. Let me assure anybody who is actually reading this stuff that this is not the case with the KWPN-NA, nor the AHS, nor plenty of other registries. But, of course, when tri spouts this stuff it has to be true? Well, no, it doesn't and it isn't!

    So why don't you look for a good marketing strategy for your AWR or AWS stuff and leave us Europhiles alone? We don't need you nor your "advice"/rantings.

    Happy Valentine's Day!
    Siegi Belz
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    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  17. #17
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    And hear the broom whoosh with the echos of cackling retreating into the night.

    Dearie, I have more than one KWPN registered, branded and approved mare...so don't try to post on open forums that all my horses are dead again - didn't they threaten to ban you last time you tried that or did they just ban you outright? Not sure as I haven't missed you.

    But I never said that ALL the monies collected go to europe - just a good bit of it with the registries that are foreign owned such as the BWP & the Selle Francias. But you just couldn't resist applying that to the KWPN and the AHS neither of which were brought up in this thread. Methinks you doth protest too much!



  18. #18
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    You're absolutely right, tri.... I didn't expect a coherent response from you. :-)
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  19. #19
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    Actually, I did bring up the KWPN. I thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the KWPN-NA was in the process of being absorbed by the KWPN--and that Judgement's International points were credited to the Dutch book, not to the KWPN-NA.
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  20. #20
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    Registry is a tracking option based on expert opinions of bloodlines, and........ a lot of behind the curtain politics.
    What counts is what happens in the rings, end of story.
    Breed the bloodlines that you beleive in and that are proven to get the job done and get the papers for the registry that make your life the easiest.
    End of my rant......
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