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  1. #1
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    Default Long format and the non-TB

    I'm aiming my gelding for a 1/2*, probably fall 2010 if all goes well. The T3D thread got me thinking.

    He is a Percheron/TB cross, but is very drafty. Though currently competing BN, he'll go T when he's ready, no problem. He's a good jumper, eats technical questions for lunch, and handily makes the time at BN.

    What do you think about running a non-TB type long format? Although my horse is half-TB, you probably wouldn't know it unless I told you. I'm confident in my ability to fit him up properly, but how do these bigger guys handle a lower-level long format? Special considerations?



  2. #2
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    Dec. 10, 2004
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    Default

    My warmblood devoured the Midsouth CCI*. It was the best thing I could have done with him. No other special considerations at the show, just making sure that he was properly fit before hand. He's a Dutch Warmblood/Selle Francais cross with only 1/4tb blood and 17h.

    I just spent a lot of time hacking him around at the show so he wouldn't stiffen. I hacked him before the jog sunday morning and that loosened him right up. But other than that, your fitness regime is the most important part.



  3. #3
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    May. 23, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzy Lady View Post
    My warmblood devoured the Midsouth CCI*. It was the best thing I could have done with him. No other special considerations at the show, just making sure that he was properly fit before hand. He's a Dutch Warmblood/Selle Francais cross with only 1/4tb blood and 17h.

    I just spent a lot of time hacking him around at the show so he wouldn't stiffen. I hacked him before the jog sunday morning and that loosened him right up. But other than that, your fitness regime is the most important part.

    I would argree...I have never been a fan of pure TB's...having a boney electric bottom.....and have always evented part warmbloods who did not have trouble with the long format. Fitness is the key for sure and found that I had to do advanced level fitness work for prelim long format with a few. But as long as they are not overtly heavy in their build and they were light on their feet, I found WB's/WB cross to be sounder mentally and physically. I have had no trouble with the demands of the long format at 1,2, or 3 star level with a warmblood. "FOR ME" the TB was highly over rated and I could never seem to put it all together at the upper levels with one.



  4. #4
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    Default

    OP, I've got a schedule I used to get my BIG warmblood fit for the T3d...but it's really just a classic * schedule, from Sally O'Connor's book, "shrunk down" to 1/2 star size -- so in other words, I did about what a classic TB person might have done to prepare for a long format, proportionally speaking.

    My horse was in TERRIFIC shape -- absolutely bouncing off the ground in SJ the final day.

    Actually, according to the vets in the box that year, the biggest horses in the competition were the fittest. One of the biggest horses there (bigger than mine, which is saying something, as he's 17.2 or so and wears size 4 shoes and XL everything) won best conditioned.

    Just make sure you do LOTS of slow hacking as well as your speed work. Put him on a schedule at least 10 weeks out and do not cheat!!
    The big man -- no longer an only child

    His new little brother



  5. #5
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    Sep. 18, 2006
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    Default

    Not to thread jack (too much), but what about a full draft, say, for example, a Percheron?

    I have long since given up the idea of being able to make it to a T3D with my horse, but is it possible?

    The OP's horse is pretty drafty, how drafty is too drafty?



  6. #6
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    Sep. 5, 2003
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    NY
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    Default confession time

    Hi folks,

    So I am a die hard TB chick..........it is all I know!!! We are talking galloped on the track for two seasons, never owned anything but a TB, etc etc. Along comes Schultzie, my father in laws Canadian draft cross. He is basically our guest hunt horse and the guests were dwindling. So I take him on as a resale and wouldn`t you know it................I like him!!! So I find myself with my beloved TB and Schultzie, trying to event them both in 09. I worry that his heavy way of going will compromise his soundness but after 4 seasons of hunting in all 3 fields, not a problem. If I can get him tuned up enough for a T3DE and my father in law does not decide to sell him, I will give it a shot. I look forward to reading about other drafties. He is a bit of a chicken but jeez, he will go all day behind hounds and sound as a dollar. So long format here we come! (that of course will be on the very slow boat, life just seems to get in my d@#$ way!)



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wookiee View Post
    Not to thread jack (too much), but what about a full draft, say, for example, a Percheron?

    I have long since given up the idea of being able to make it to a T3D with my horse, but is it possible?

    The OP's horse is pretty drafty, how drafty is too drafty?

    Hate to be a downer but I would think a full draft is too much...and wouldn't want to put the pounding on a draft cross that was very drafty either. That isn't fair to them. They were not built for speed or jumping and that pounding is hard on them. Even if they can do it, they are at a much higher risk of injury....I've know lots of drafties that I loved. We had a full one that was a great vaulting horse and w/t horse....but not known any that I thought should be eventing.

    That said, many draft crosses fox hunt. If they are light enough to handle hunting in first flight (well at least first flight in the country in these parts)....then they are generally fine for a 1/2* or even a * long format....and some even higher. I knew a draft cross (1/4 perch) that evented at Advanced....but she wasn't very drafty/heavy.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Nov. 30, 2008 at 09:09 PM.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  8. #8
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    Nov. 5, 2002
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    Hometown: San Antonio, TX ; Current Location: Amarillo, TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flypony74 View Post
    I'm aiming my gelding for a 1/2*, probably fall 2010 if all goes well. The T3D thread got me thinking.

    He is a Percheron/TB cross, but is very drafty. Though currently competing BN, he'll go T when he's ready, no problem. He's a good jumper, eats technical questions for lunch, and handily makes the time at BN.

    What do you think about running a non-TB type long format? Although my horse is half-TB, you probably wouldn't know it unless I told you. I'm confident in my ability to fit him up properly, but how do these bigger guys handle a lower-level long format? Special considerations?
    I ran a QH/Trak at the * level (LF) and a TB/Hanv at the *** (LF).

    My QHx took a bit more conditioning work but I think he ran around and felt as sound & bouncy at the end as my Tb/Hanv.

    I think if you take the extra time to condition him correctly then you should have no problem

    Heck, in the next couple years I am going to take a full QH around a T3DE
    RIP Kid Gloves (Holly) 1992 TBxHanv CCI*** mare.
    http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/holly
    New mare: Miss Bunny Express (Missy) 1995 AQHA Jumper mare.
    http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/missy



  9. #9
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    Sep. 15, 2006
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    Maryland
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    Default

    OP, I am a TB person all the way; personality, way of going, it's just...me, I guess! Love them.

    That said, I have gotten to really appreciate these drafty crosses! They are fun and hardworking and handy! if a good cross. There is a Perch/TB cross at my barn who did a * last fall, and did it WELL (Midsouth), so it can most definitely be done and well, too.

    I think a lot of it depends on how draft is drafty? If super heavy, I'm not entirely sure a long format, or really, a stringent conditioning and competition schedule to get to a 1/2 or * is the way to go. That's a lot to ask of those heavy horses. More than hunting first flight, IMO, with the stop-go on a typical hunting day (not the screaming runs! ).



  10. #10
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    Aug. 14, 2003
    Location
    ID, USA
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    Default

    I have a draft-x...not really sure what he is, but he definatly has draft in him, he is very light on his feet and fast, I did a 1/2 star this summer and he came out of it great, i didn't do much more on the way of fitness than a regular ht, but now that i am planning on doing a 1*, his fitness regime has been upped(hes not to pleased with me). Remember each horse is an individual and its needs are different, so you will not know without trying...remember bigger the bones, harder the impact, more wear and tear.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by three_dayer View Post
    I have a draft-x...not really sure what he is, but he definatly has draft in him, he is very light on his feet and fast, I did a 1/2 star this summer and he came out of it great, i didn't do much more on the way of fitness than a regular ht, but now that i am planning on doing a 1*, his fitness regime has been upped(hes not to pleased with me). Remember each horse is an individual and its needs are different, so you will not know without trying...remember bigger the bones, harder the impact, more wear and tear.

    To clarify what I posted earlier....for me....if they are light on their feet...I don't consider them super drafty. I DO think draft-x can event at the highest levels (and they have) but not ones that are super drafty. A lot of the 1/4 or 1/8 cross are super. I had a jumper that was a 1/8 clyde and that sucker could JUMP....but he was also very light on his feet. For any horse....if I can feel the ground shake when the canter by....whether a draft cross or full TB....I don't want to event that horse as I think the conditioning would cause them to break down but that is just my opinion.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Dec. 1, 2008 at 11:00 AM.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  12. #12
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    Apr. 9, 2008
    Location
    unionville pa
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    Default Uncle Felton

    1/4 perch 3/4 TB did rolex multiple times in the 80's. Looked like a largish irish horse. But after all aren't the Irish Sport Horses part Irish draught/draft?



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by broodmare View Post
    1/4 perch 3/4 TB did rolex multiple times in the 80's. Looked like a largish irish horse. But after all aren't the Irish Sport Horses part Irish draught/draft?


    Yes....but the ones that compete at the higher levels have not been super "drafty" or in other words, were not super heavy. They had more substance than a full TB but didn't look like a full draft. Draft crosses have been competing successfully in eventing and jumpers for a very long time.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  14. #14
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    Jun. 27, 2002
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    Tennessee
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    Default

    Thanks for your replies. Here is the equine in question:
    http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...YSept08web.jpg
    http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...lassique_1.jpg

    He has a very drafty build but isn't huge at only 14.3hh. If you let him plunk along on his forehand he can be a bit of a ground pounder, but ridden correctly, he is surprisingly light on his feet.

    I'm not terribly concerned about the concussion issue because he is conditioned very slowly/correctly, I am VERY particular about his footing (hard ground), and he has good/solid/sound conformation. If I felt at any time that his training was negatively impacting him, at any level, I'd back off immediately and focus on another goal. I have no problem doing that, and I'm tuned in enough to know.

    I guess I was wondering more about the fitness aspect of getting a horse like this LF fit. I spent summers in college riding and conditioning with a friend who was running FEI (I had the fittest Novice horse out there!), so I know what it takes to really fit one up (with obvious adjustments for a harder-to-fit-up non-TB), just wasn't sure if it was possible to get a heavier horse LF fit. Granted it is only Training, and I won't take him beyond that. I guess I'll get more answers as he progresses through the levels.

    FWIW, he's always well under time at BN (to the point where I now write the SF time on my arm) at a comfortable pace, and recovers very quickly. At KY Classique in Sept, he came off a long, technical x-c looking for more.



  15. #15
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    Nov. 9, 2006
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    Finger Lakes Region of NY
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    Default

    I evented my 1/2 Belgian 1/2 QH to Preliminary level successfully until I moved on to my full TB. I say just take it level by level and see how he does. Some can do it, some can't, and you'll know. If you're having fun then I wouldn't worry too much about moving up and what you can do and what you can't. I will say this - if you want to be competitve at Prelim or above, I don't think most draft crosses can compete with the lighter guys. At least in my experience, hence why I made the extremely hard decision to move on. However, it sounds like you just want to go Training with him and we were very competitive there. I followed the fitness schedule for the 1* in Sally O'Connors book and we were fine all the way through Prelim.

    Here is a pic my draft cross with me at Prelim.

    ETA: His radiographs showed just barely the start of arthritis in his hocks (which was better than normal) and otherwise he was completely clean everywhere else which was phenomenal for a horse who evented heavily into his mid-teens.

    http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u...sonJumping.jpg

    and an old picture just so you can see how heavy he is
    http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u...Morse04dr1.jpg

    He's now teaching a beginning rider how to event/ride and loving it. Popping over 2' fences and living the life.



  16. #16
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    Jun. 27, 2002
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    I have no plans to take him above Training.

    When I got him at four, I didn't have high hopes for him, as I was just looking for a horse to go out and have fun on, after a traumatic accident. I knew he'd do BN, maybe N. But as he's grown up and progressed, I've been pleasantly surprised at his ability and competitiveness. We school around N stuff without batting an eye, and have schooled a reasonable bit of T comfortably. Some individual P fences are starting to look doable, though I have no plans to ever compete him at that level.

    He's still a little green....can handle technical questions and fence height beyond his current competitive level, but he just needs mileage to get more consistent.



  17. #17
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    Default

    He is very cute! To me, the fitness they need at the T3D isn't substantially more than what they need to run Training HT. It is meant to be an educational experience....not a huge endurance run. If you get up to training and he is handling that well....you should be fine. It sounds like you already know how to get a horse fit....just remember that there is a fine line between doing enough and doing too much. You need to do enough to get him fit but the goal should be to not get him over fit because that means you added more wear and tear on him than was needed.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  18. #18
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    Take a look at the Sally O C * schedule already mentioned on this thread -- I ramped this down for my T3d and it worked great. Basically you do one traditional interval day and one "long trot/walk hack" day for your conditioning -- so you "gallop" at most every 10 days. For the T3d I worked up to 25 mins straight trotting and an additional 1.5 hour walk hack on hills for the long trot day. Worked great. For Prelim I was up to about 40 mins trotting and he had plenty of gas in the tank.

    Lots of long slow work does wonders for the heavier guys...
    The big man -- no longer an only child

    His new little brother



  19. #19
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    Feb. 22, 2002
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    Default

    A lot of "Canadian Sporthorses" are some variation of a Belgian/TB cross and have been pretty successful over the years - try googling Yves Landry and Napierville, Quebec for some results. Don't forget a lot of these draft crosses think nothing of going for several hours over indifferent ground & fences if they're in a hunt field - maybe not as fast but just as stamina-sapping.
    Brock
    Brock n. (Anglo-Saxon) badger as in Brockenhurst, Brocklebank etc www.area35.us



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