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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2007
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    79

    Default Dished-in Foot

    i just got home for the weekend, went out to see my horses and realized my one TB's right hoof is starting to dish in. I've only ever seen this w/ horses who were overdue getting their feet done, but his were just done about 3 weeks ago. I'm assuming the farrier would have noticed if this had been going on for awhile (not the best selection of farriers in the area, but even a horse-clueless person would notice). It is only his right foot that is doing it. He has always had problems w/ his right ankle (bone chips), and sometimes w/ his heel, but i've never seen this problem w/ him. i called the vet and they are coming out soon, but i thought maybe i'd see if anyone else had experienced this problem before. he doesnt seem to be lame either (he's retired, but saw him trotting in the field yesterday). its very strange and i really want to get on this before it gets worse.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2008
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Is this the foot he keeps in the back position when grazing or eating?
    Whole Horse Hoof Care
    Mt. Airy, Maryland
    Barefoot When Possible, Shoes When Necessary
    kNOw hoof, kNOw Horse.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2007
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    Default

    i'm trying to picture in my mind what he looks like when he's grazing, and i'm pretty sure he keeps his right leg forward b/c his ankle is stiff and its easier on him than keeping it back. his legs are longer than his neck, so he has to stretch a bit more than normal to reach the ground. i cant say i'm 100% positive, but i'm pretty sure.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
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    7,320

    Default

    The hoof is excessively flaring at the toe - could be for several reasons:

    Diet high in sugars and starches leading to toe flares
    Bad trimming (leaving toes too long)
    Or both

    It is usually more pronounced on the horse's dominant hoof as it tends to take more load. If your horse has more muscle development over his right shoulder too, that would indicate it is indeed his dominant hoof...



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
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    10,895

    Default

    Ditto Born.

    Flaring forward, separation too?

    Probably just needs to be addressed more aggressively.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2006
    Location
    SW PA
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    Default

    Some pictures would help. It sounds like that foot could have rotated a bit. This would concern me and I would want the vet to take some films.
    Boyle Heights Kid 1998 OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
    Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
    "Once you go off track, you never go back!"



  7. #7
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    Oct. 19, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyleHeightsKid View Post
    Some pictures would help. It sounds like that foot could have rotated a bit. This would concern me and I would want the vet to take some films.
    Good point - definitely a consideration if the horse shows soreness too!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2007
    Location
    Port Charlotte, FL
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    3,394

    Default

    One possibility is that your horse is suffering from a pain contracture of the deep flexor muscle. When this happens, the foot of the affected limb can become a club foot. I'm not saying this IS the case, but you might want your vet to do a thorough lameness workup on the affected limb. This includes hoof tester analysis, reverse wedging to check for contracture, lateral radiographs to check for philangial alignment, nerve blocks, and flexion tests to rule out muscular tendon issues. If the situation is metabolic (another possibility) then you might want to review your horses diet including having your forrage tested, plus a blood workup.

    Whatever you do, your farrier ought to remove the dish. I will NOT grow out straight. New growth follows old. Leaving the dish will encourage it to get worse over time.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2006
    Location
    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    3,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Diet high in sugars and starches leading to toe flares
    .
    Please describe how this phenomenon occurs and where it has been recorded for posterity.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2007
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    79

    Default

    thanks everyone! i called the vet today and told them that i wanted x-rays and a full lameness exam. i'll let you know what they say! i'm really hoping its nothing serious, but he's never had the best feet so we'll see. while on the topic of bad feet, does anyone know of a good farrier in the SE virginia area? i swear there must be some kind of caution tape around this area keeping all the good farriers away!



  11. #11
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    Oct. 19, 2005
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    Boy Rick, I sure hope you know how to recognize a founder flare and will be able to tell when a horse is becoming mildly laminitic because he's on his way to developing insulin resistance WELL BEFORE it becomes a full blown attack or worse founder. Isn't that part of your excellent care??!! I'll give you a hint - looks for the easy kepper type of horses and what their hooves do!



  12. #12
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    Feb. 18, 2006
    Location
    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Boy Rick, I sure hope you know how to recognize a founder flare and will be able to tell when a horse is becoming mildly laminitic because he's on his way to developing insulin resistance
    ROTFLMFAO!! You would have us believe that said diet always leads to laminitis/founder. And by the way, laminitis due to a diet such as that described does not necessarily have, as one of its by products, a toe flare. But you already knew that, right? Wonder why you didn't better clarify what you were trying to say

    Further, not all founders have as a component, a toe flare. Can you think of a situation where this might be true?

    Do all horses with high sugar/starch diets develop insulin resistance? (I know the answer, but I'd like to see if you do too)



  13. #13
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Boy Rick, I sure hope you know how to recognize a founder flare and will be able to tell when a horse is becoming mildly laminitic because he's on his way to developing insulin resistance WELL BEFORE it becomes a full blown attack or worse founder. Isn't that part of your excellent care??!! I'll give you a hint - looks for the easy kepper type of horses and what their hooves do!

    you are joking arnt you,
    look for easy keeper type of horse haha,
    its down to the indidivaul owner to make sure that the equines they own have a proper
    cycle of farrier care - not the farriers themselves -- the owner that have the horses its there responsiblity in making sure that horse has all the attention it needs in welfare management so it can have a good life

    and to comment to qualified farriers such as you have,
    born to ride------- didnt you know that part of a farriers education is one of vet and diet
    and along with the working of the foot------- thats the most stupidest comment i have heard in a long time especially to rick and co, ha ha ha



  14. #14
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    Dec. 10, 2007
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    Default

    as a side note, the horse doesnt seem to be foundering, and his toe doesnt seem to have changed at all (no flaring), it is just the front of his hoof is starting to curve in. doesnt show any lameness in the right front either.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
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    Keep in mind that warning signs that a horse may be developing insulin resistance and laminitis are present well before the devastating effects of the acute condition are apparent. Unusual toe flaring can be one of those signs, so can be any of the following:

    Weaker hooves - soft soles and horn
    Ratty looking frogs
    Frequent issues with thrush and/or white line disease
    Regular ripples growing down the hoofwalls
    Red lines or spots in the hoof wall
    Stretched white line
    Dropped sole or loss of sole concavity
    Easy bruising and abscessing

    Ignoring those obvious early signs is often what leads to laminitis down the road. It is easy to test for it, if you see several warning signs that may indicate your horse might be developing insulin resistance - simply have the insulin and glucose levels tested. The ratio between the two will tell you whether or not your horse is affected. You may want to check ACTH levels too, if not just to rule out possible Cushings which can be a afctor too in some cases.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2007
    Location
    Virginia
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    1,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Keep in mind that warning signs that a horse may be developing insulin resistance and laminitis are present well before the devastating effects of the acute condition are apparent. Unusual toe flaring can be one of those signs, so can be any of the following:

    Weaker hooves - soft soles and horn
    Ratty looking frogs
    Frequent issues with thrush and/or white line disease
    Regular ripples growing down the hoofwalls
    Red lines or spots in the hoof wall
    Stretched white line
    Dropped sole or loss of sole concavity
    Easy bruising and abscessing

    Ignoring those obvious early signs is often what leads to laminitis down the road. It is easy to test for it, if you see several warning signs that may indicate your horse might be developing insulin resistance - simply have the insulin and glucose levels tested. The ratio between the two will tell you whether or not your horse is affected. You may want to check ACTH levels too, if not just to rule out possible Cushings which can be a afctor too in some cases.
    I am not a farrier nor do I claim to be, but here is my experience with a dish in a foot. My easy keeper has in the past always had a tendency to have a dish in her foot. Vet knew about it, farrier knew about it. Skip years later to present time, (mare is now 18) diagnosed, after bout of laminitis, with IR. I wish someone (more educated on the subject than myself at the time) would have told me that the dish COULD be a precourser symptom of laminitis, or IR. I would have investigated EARLIER than delt with the problem AFTER the first laminitis. Just my experience.



  17. #17
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    Dec. 10, 2007
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    79

    Default

    what does IR stand for? i did some research on laminitis and he isnt really showing any of the signs except his sole has seemed to drop and V creases on each side of the frog have gotten deeper. vet is coming out next week...w/ x-ray machine in tow! i'm going to take some pictures tomorrow and put them on here.



  18. #18
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    Oct. 19, 2005
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    IR stands for insulin resistance. Warning signs that a horse is affected can generally be seen early on before the horse even shows any soreness at all. You just gave me another sign that he's possibly affected - a dropped sole!



  19. #19
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    dished feet can be also down to conformation of the actual horse
    an elbow out equals a toe in for exsample pigeon toed, an elbow in equals a toe out for exsample a dish
    a clear straight elbow then straight toes
    but it doesnt stop a horses doing what ever but you might lose points if showing becuase its a comformational fault



  20. #20
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    Apr. 6, 2006
    Location
    Plainview, MN
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    Default

    My first guess would be that the horse has a slight club foot on that foot and the farrier is not doing a good/correct job in dealing with it. How often does the horse get trimmed? I firmly believe it should be done every 6 weeks.



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