Grumpy mare

Help! I have a beautiful palomino 4 year old mare. I have owned her since she was a yearling. Bought her and her older sister for next to nothing. Trained her sister and sold her to a 12 yr old boy who is showing competitively now. My question that I hope to get comments regarding is this... She is the most miserable horse I ever met. She respects me on the ground, does great working in the round pen. Totally listens. The problem is she bucks. The first time she bucked I stayed on for 4 bucks (huge pro rodeo bucks) but that last buck I lost my stirrups and fell and broke my hip. Pins were put in my hip and 10 weeks later I could walk again. Needless to say she sat most of the summer. My daughter rode here once, and she bucked her off in a corn field for NO reason..just walking. She bucked me off because I asked her to walk and nudged too hard. (I guess) So, I sent her to a trainer, which was hard for me cuz I went to school to do this myself. The trainer said she was ticklish, and he never rode her. He desensitized her but no riding. She had about 8 rides before she bucked me off. I spent two years ground driving her, and just letting her grow up. She was pretty stunted when I bought her, but I saw promise. Even when she walks toward me or anyone at the fence, she walks up with her ears back. The vet noticed this yesterday. I thought maybe she has PSSM so changed her diet, had chiropractor out three times.. She does have a rib protruding from a kick three years ago, but chiropractor said it was in place and that shouldn't be the problem. Could it be ovaries, kidneys, or just a grumpy horse? Should I just find someone to put some serious miles on her, or continue slow and steady? I am 47 and I fall hard..I want to keep her love her, but don't know what her deal is.. HELP

If she's 4 now and you spent 2 years ground driving her after she bucked you off, what age was she when you first attempted to back her?

I usually only start them at 4 years. Maybe she's grumpy because she's a baby and needs more time. Maybe she's grumpy because she's sore (?from being worked and ridden as a baby?). Maybe she needs a bigger, older horse in the field with her to teach her to mind her manners. Maybe she just wants to boss you around.

She's probably old enough now (what are her knees like?) to be backed and start her career. If you don't want to or are worried about her bucking, send her to a trainer, requesting they ride her, not just ground train her. Trainer will have started lots of horses (hopefully there's one in your area) and will be able to tell if grumpiness is pain or something else.

If you have ruled out pain from a vet exam, I would send her to someone who will not let her get away with it.

pain

Thanks all...and to phoebe trainee what do you mean by "what age was she when you first attempted to back her?" I basically only did ground work until late in her third year...then we rode in round pen maybe three times, and actually rode on trails fine. Then this spring (her 4th yr) I started more riding again, but spent a lot of time ground driving first. Her knees are fine.. I suppose I will send her out again in the spring to a trainer that will actually put miles on her. I just have never in my 40 years of riding ever encountered a horse that is grumpy.. She runs and plays with the other horse we have here on our small 13 acre farm, just is a grump!
And for those that think it is pain...how the heck do you rule it out. Palpating? I am going to have her blood drawn in the spring and check selenium levels, but I don't know what else blood work can show...suggestions? Chiropractor said she is good to go.

I would send her out to a trainer who can put the miles on her under saddle. She could be in pain or she could just be a grumpy mare. Iv trained all my own horses started them as 3 year olds.

Did only ground work when they were 2 but never got on them till they were 3 years old. Most of mine did the bucking the saddle but only two bucked me off. When i was bucked off they had had 10 rides on them and had been doing just fine.

My current gelding i ride now he waited till he was 5 years old to do the rodeo thing i rode it out. Then when he was done i worked the tar right out of him hes never bucked again.

Some horses just like to buck my old mare whos 25 can still unload me if she really want too.She was a bucker from day one had her vetted and nothing was wrong. She just liked to buck and still does.

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Originally Posted by sassy45

I would send her out to a trainer who can put the miles on her under saddle. She could be in pain or she could just be a grumpy mare. Iv trained all my own horses started them as 3 year olds.

Did only ground work when they were 2 but never got on them till they were 3 years old. Most of mine did the bucking the saddle but only two bucked me off. When i was bucked off they had had 10 rides on them and had been doing just fine.

My current gelding i ride now he waited till he was 5 years old to do the rodeo thing i rode it out. Then when he was done i worked the tar right out of him hes never bucked again.

Some horses just like to buck my old mare whos 25 can still unload me if she really want too.She was a bucker from day one had her vetted and nothing was wrong. She just liked to buck and still does.

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So 5 of your horses had liked to buck and do the "rodeo thing" for no reason?

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Originally Posted by Pennywell Bay

So 5 of your horses had liked to buck and do the "rodeo thing" for no reason?

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Dont know were you got five of my horses bucked i never said five bucked. ONLY TWO and yeah nothing was wrong with them. Only one likes to buck NOT 5 Just goes to show you cant read!!!!!!!! And the one who likes to buck is JUST FINE!!!!! Shes now retired do to being heavey shes 25.

Dont put things in my post that ARENT THERE.

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Originally Posted by sassy45

Dont know were you got five of my horses bucked i never said five bucked. ONLY TWO and yeah nothing was wrong with them. Only one likes to buck NOT 5 Just goes to show you cant read!!!!!!!! And the one who likes to buck is JUST FINE!!!!! Shes now retired do to being heavey shes 25.

Dont put things in my post that ARENT THERE.

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Well bless your heart. It was a question for clarity on your post.

Bless your Minnesota heart. :)

Simple solution here. She likes to buck and bucks big? Sell her to a rodeo contractor. Good roughstock is worth a lot of money and those horses are treated very well.

Alternatively, full lameness exam, and I would pay very close attention to the spine, perhaps with a full set of rads. I have seen some young horses who buck BIG and HARD turn out to have a pretty whopping case of kissing spines.

If nothing on the lameness exam, send her to a good cowboy who used to ride roughstock or bulls. Someone who will actually get on her and not let her get away with it. She will probably never be truly trustworthy, though.

i would have a chiropratice exam done

i would have a chiropratice exam done.....

I did have chiropractor out...one came out twice,said her rib was out. Which I knew. She had been kicked by her sister and that was two years before. She had a hematoma on her left side of her barrel. Now the rib protrudes. So....I've used liniment soaks, massage, etc... Another chiropractor said yes her rib had been out but it is connected fine and just use lineaments. So...just so everyone knows, I found a trainer to work her this spring and at least we can give her the opportunity to be trainable. I will either keep her if she becomes a good horse, or sell her and find one that will give me a trustworthy ride. I'm just too old to ride a untrustworthy horse when there are sooooo many great horses out there...

IMHO.... this is a dominant, pushy mare that has your number and has learned that bucking gets her the day off. I would be really upset if I sent her out for training and the trainer wouldn't ride her because she's "ticklish". Never heard of such BS. I would want my money back.

Find a good trainer with references that WILL train/ride the horse properly.

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned saddle fit! Of course getting away with bucking now makes it the resistance of choice, so you'll still need a pro to work that out and you may still need to sit a few bucks yourself until she figures out that it doesn't work anymore. Selling her to a more experienced rider may be your best bet in the long run.

Have you had a saddle fitter check to make certain that your saddle is not pinching her somewhere?

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Originally Posted by jherold

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned saddle fit! Of course getting away with bucking now makes it the resistance of choice, so you'll still need a pro to work that out and you may still need to sit a few bucks yourself until she figures out that it doesn't work anymore. Selling her to a more experienced rider may be your best bet in the long run.

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I'd like to see anyone ride her bucks! Pretty extreme...straight up. As far as saddle fit. It fits. We have a 150 dollar wool pad we use. I plan to get a trainer that will RIDE her for a month or so , as I said before, I am an experienced rider, have a degree in horse trining, but the fact that I'm 47 and already broke my hip last August, I just need someone to get those next few rides out of the way, so I can finish her, thanks for all your suggestions however!

Just to add we have a variety of saddles, longhorn, Simco, and Dakota, and they all fit her. She has a pretty normal build, her withers hold the saddle well, she isn't cinchy.
Oh, and someone above said I should get my money back....well, I think even though he didn't ride her, he did feed her, work her and she did come back with a new perspective on just about everything. I am appreciative about that.

Do you lunge her or round pen or turn her out into an arena fully tacked up every time before getting on her? This is a great way to judge their current state of mind and excess energy level. I don't care if they are out in a field running and bucking, you need a time of warming up and getting them focused on you as well as getting the bucks out if needed-- She is only 4.

My mare is 8 and I still 99% of the time lunge her before riding just to gauge where she is at mentally. Sometimes it is only a few circuits and I get right on and sometimes she walks out there like a plow horse only to explode like a crazy thing. She is out 24/7.