clarification of rules
Those of you that can understand the rules- maybe you can explain the pre-green and green status to me. I'm bringing along a youngster and thought the rules had changed to allow you a full year depending on when you first showed in that division. checking the rules, I see that is not the case, still operating on the competition year. What confuses me is the opportunity to show 4 times before Sept 1st and not after and still effectively "go back"?
So my question is this - can I show my baby in the pre-greens or adults, a couple of times between now and Nov 30th, and still be eligible for the 3' pre-greens next year?
As I read them, the rules are pretty clear the 4 classes must be completed BEFORE Sept 1. Then you'd have to apply for reinstatement and pay a fee...and they sometimes say no.
Maybe you are getting confused over the fact if the competition starts Nov 30 and runs into Dec and the next competition year, status remains as it was at the start of the show...but only for that show.
But the answer to your question about showing at 3' between now and Dec 1 and retaining your Pre Green status seems to be no. The show year has remained DEC 1 thru NOV 30 since I started showing in 68 or 9, not going to change but some breed shows may have a different calender.
Green status is divided into 1st Years at 3'6" and 2nd Years, IIRC at 3'9" (????). Same rules about competing at those heights apply.
That said, if you are not doing USEF rated shows, definitions may vary and there can be some differences in those definitions from region to region. You would find those in the prize list or by asking or checking whoever does rate the show's website.
Thanks findeight. I was just confused by the September deal. We've worked so hard and need to move up, but will have to wait. I hate to miss these great fall shows but there is nothing offered on the weekend and I can't keep taking days off work. Wish they would keep a 2'9" so owners had that opportunity.
Pre-greens are subject to different rules. Typically they are age specific ( a horse has two years or until the age of six to be eligible) so if for instance your six year old is making their debut in the pregreens thay have two yrs to compete at that level. If your three year old is stepping into the pregreens he has three years of showing pregreen due to his age.
The rated divisions are different, your horse is subject to being a first year green horse as soon as he jumps 3'6" in a recognized show and can only regain first year status by reinstatement through USEF.
I think that your original question was about the pregreen status- simply put if you show at all in 2012 that will count as a full year. If you wait until after 2012 you will have 2 full years of eligibility or your horse ageing out.
Alligory…would you please direct me to the USEF rule regarding "aging out" of the pre greens or a reference to the ineligibility to show as a pre green due to the age of the horse?
I think she might be referring to something regional for youngsters or something in a breed show and not the USEF rated Pre Greens OP asked about.
There is not a thing in the USEF rules about horse age and Pre Green eligibilty. You get 2 years regardless of horse age when you start, IIRC it's 1 year at 3' and the second at 3'3". Horse can be 3 or 13, long as it's never shown at the stated height.
HU 106.3.c says showing as a three year old does not affect Pre-Green eligibility.
Thanks FINDEIGHT…That's what I thought.
I'm trying to find where ALLIGORY found her information.
I think she was talking about showing Pre Green as a 3 year old does not count against the 2 years eligibility once it starts...but putting in an entire year at the 3' Pre Green with a 3 year old is kind of...rare...to say the least. I would think that would just let it do a fall Futurity class without blowing the whole year.
But I have no idea where the idea of "aging out" at age 6 comes from. They can be any age as long as they did not compete at that height...and alot of them are older then 6 when they start in the Pre Greens. I've had 3 of them, 2 around age 7 and one 9 that switched careers or got stuck on a back burner until they were considerably older. One was doing 2'9" Hunter Hack at AQHA shows.
Until fairly recently (2011) it was up to each zone to set the specs for PreGreen Hunters. And there was a lot of variety in rules depending on your geographic area.
Originally Posted by findeight
Zone 2 had specs but did not give a year end prize. And those specs were in conflict with Zone 1 which mentioned age in their rules.
Zone 3 had specific rules regarding three year old horses.
One Zone had a high/low rule.
One Zone mentioned reinstatement but said it wasn't allowed.
I don't believe there was any 'six year old' rule but I'd have to go back and review the zone specs to verify that.
Almost all the zone were specific that the limiting factor was the first two years of showing although that was a little vague unless showing at a specific height was mentioned.
Two years ago ( not sure) there was a rule change proposal that would have allowed the 'year' counter to start with the first date that a horse showed but that proposal was wisely not voted into the rule book. Horses could have had their Pre Green or ist year Green status expiring in the middle of a show year.
PINE TREE …thanks for indicating where Aligory may have gotten her information from. I am familiar with the current USEF pre green specs but I thought I may have missed something.
USEF can't even track points for correctly for the Dec 1 Nov 30 show year. Imagine the mess if they had to track 1200 Pre Greens nation wide that each started and would run out of eligibility on diffent dates:eek:.
Pre Greens are relatively recent as a National division and the zone specs were kind of all over the place. But I was involved with Pre Greens over about 19 years in 4 zones and never heard of the age 6 or under only. But maybe, back when, that was part of the definition somewhere.
Anyway, not now.
I checked some of the older zone specs and did not find a reference to 6 year olds.
However, ALLIGORY may have had a non USEF rated division in mind. Some show Assoc. have Young Hunter or Baby Green Hunter divisions that count for an Assoc. year end awards. Often those divisions do have an age limit. The show Assoc. I'm involved with has that type of division.
Sorry to go OT but find eight what I find funny about the last sentence is that most of the "imports" showing up in the pre-greens generally have shown up to at LEAST 1 to 1.10 meters in Europe! But who's checking:lol:
Originally Posted by findeight