Another AQHA member dirty deed.

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Originally Posted by GotGait

Unfortunately, that's a noseband for a bosal. They can come with all kinds of torture devices. Sometimes they have spikes, needles, or razor blades under the noseband - and sometimes under the curb too. One I saw was made from thin braided wire. They are openly sold at shows and a trainer was using one in an article in our breed magazine. I raised hell, and while they did post a retraction they should never have had photos like that in the breed mag at all.

ETA: these are sold as "training devices" - where have we heard that before? :rolleyes:
They aren't allowed in the ring, but undoubtably some get through.

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I don't think you saw the same picture as I did. Because that is a bit. Not a training noseband.

And I have ridden hunter under saddle horses and wp horses in aqha. It took me awhile to learn the WP signals, BUT once I got it, it is a wonderful feeling to put the spurs/leg (not jab just squeeze) and feel that body come up under you. It really is a feeling of power with a well trained horse. You can just feel the whole body lift up underneath you.
I am not happy what happened with Shirley, she should be done if all is as appears, but there is more that one way to train a horse.
So all the crap about training is mute. I want to know what happens to her.

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Originally Posted by Swampskeeter

I don't think you saw the same picture as I did. Because that is a bit. Not a training noseband.
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Why do you think it's a bit? Because it has rings on the side or because it's jointed? Paso fino nosebands don't look like what you'd call a noseband in QH or H/J world.

These are some "nice" paso fino nosebands.
http://casadosa.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-p...-dosa&pc=12386

I can't find any pictures online but I too have seen metal ones, jointed ones (bike chain) and everything else in between.

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Originally Posted by appaloosalady

Not everybody that shows and breeds QHs is evil and yes, there are some horses out there that really do move that way by their own choosing. My oldest daughter has one- a Zips Chocolate Chip mare. She shows all-around and trying to get her mare to move out for English events is a joke. Her "extended trot" is slower and smoother than most horses can jog. It is a solid two beat gait, just very sloooow. We finished her training ourselves and I can guarantee that she was never tortured or forced in any way.

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I have a ZCC mare too...she moves differently for sure, but has been asked to move better since I've had her, and she will when she realizes she won't be punished for extending or moving out. It was a long and slow process though, to undo the damage done by spur stop training and whatever the heck tie-downs, draw reins, and hanging in the stall did to her. She was treated very, very poorly and it makes me sick because she's the kindest horse I've ever known.

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Originally Posted by gaitedincali

Why do you think it's a bit? Because it has rings on the side or because it's jointed? Paso fino nosebands don't look like what you'd call a noseband in QH or H/J world.

These are some "nice" paso fino nosebands.
http://casadosa.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-p...-dosa&pc=12386

I can't find any pictures online but I too have seen metal ones, jointed ones (bike chain) and everything else in between.

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Yeah, that metal thing is a nose band. The kid has his hands almost a foot apart - I don't know any horse whose mouth that would fit. Certainly not a small Paso.
Bosal nosebands have rings on the sides that look like a loose ring snaffle. Mine are made of smooth leather like the above photo.

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Originally Posted by GotGait

Yeah, that metal thing is a nose band. The kid has his hands almost a foot apart - I don't know any horse whose mouth that would fit. Certainly not a small Paso.
Bosal nosebands have rings on the sides that look like a loose ring snaffle. Mine are made of smooth leather like the above photo.

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I'm not sure if it matters if it is a noseband or bit. It looked nasty either way

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Originally Posted by GotGait

Yeah, that metal thing is a nose band. The kid has his hands almost a foot apart - I don't know any horse whose mouth that would fit. Certainly not a small Paso.
Bosal nosebands have rings on the sides that look like a loose ring snaffle. Mine are made of smooth leather like the above photo.

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Besides which, all the PF bits I've seen are shanked bits.

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Originally Posted by carolprudm

I'm not sure if it matters if it is a noseband or bit. It looked nasty either way

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No argument here. It's abhorrent.

twotrudoc, this is truly a horrifying story, but at least the NSBA and law enforcement are stepping up to the plate to address it. She is obviously a vile human being, but it's wrong to paint an entire discipline with the same brush.

There is good and bad in every discipline, and there are abuses in every aspect of the horse world, but with today's media, it's not so easy to hide, thank God.

I know some great AQHA people but I will admit - some of the worst I have known (trainers) were AQHA circuit people.

One mare I took on to take into dressage - she LOVED dressage. She was a AQHA mare and had come from a AQHA training barn - when wet - she had all sorts of spur scars you could see.

I was giving a lesson at a barn down the road to two kids - and this AQHA trainer (that tends to win alot and if I said her name - several of you would have heard of her) was telling me about a horse at an AQHA show she took that was so lame - she had to triple dose the horse to finish the hunter over fences. She said she did not travel so far to this show to not be able to show because the horse was lame. I just looked at her. It was like - AM I HEARING THIS? And then I watched her train a 2 year old and had to leave - it made me sick.

I did watch a 'dressage trainer' try to 'educate the horse's mouth' on an Andalusian and that made me sick too.

The animal world is full of sick people.

ETA: Strike that. The WORLD is full of sick people.

I wonder what the longterm health implications will be for the poor horse. The method she apparently used is the way you patch a rug that is damaged, and not a poor creature you injured.

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Originally Posted by JanM

I wonder what the longterm health implications will be for the poor horse. The method she apparently used is the way you patch a rug that is damaged, and not a poor creature you injured.

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I expect he will have some large scars, some white hair where some comes back.
They may do cosmetic surgery and use skin grafts to cover those places, if he is that valuable a show horse.

Sure makes you wonder about some people, does it and worse, it reflects badly on all of us that have animals to care for.
More fuel for those that want animal use banned, yelling "it is all abuse, see!".

I don't see how we can ever stop all abuse, but we are getting closer, I think.

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Originally Posted by Bluey

I don't see how we can ever stop all abuse, but we are getting closer, I think.

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I wish I were more optimistic. I think they just get sneakier: drugs that can't be tested (oops, just a couple dead ponies here and there), plastic surgery, "training" methods that happen far from prying eyes... Cheaters will always find a way to cheat because it's all about winning no matter what.
:(

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Originally Posted by Lynnwood

I honestly left bewildered one min hes spuring and yanking the next hes petting and cooing at the same horse.

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Its his guilt. Same reason why, after a not-so-good ride on my mare where I leave frustrated and grumpy (NOT hitting her or anything like that), I get up extra early and go out of my way the next day on my way to work at like 6:30 in the morning just to give her an apple and tell her I love her.

I don't agree Bean Counter... I think the reason why he is able to do this apparent jekyl and hyde is that when he's beating a horse up- he's probably not *angry* ... he not "losing it... the beating up part of his method is probably just that- HIS METHOD... he can probably beat a horse up without having his heart rate change... and when it's all over- he can apply those warm fuzzies just the same. I doubt he feels guilty about the things he regularly turns to in his toolbox which actually get him the results he is after.

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Originally Posted by Plainandtall

I don't agree Bean Counter... I think the reason why he is able to do this apparent jekyl and hyde is that when he's beating a horse up- he's probably not *angry* ... he not "losing it... the beating up part of his method is probably just that- HIS METHOD... he can probably beat a horse up without having his heart rate change... and when it's all over- he can apply those warm fuzzies just the same. I doubt he feels guilty about the things he regularly turns to in his toolbox which actually get him the results he is after.

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You mean, like some parent getting their kid's behind blistered "for their own good"?

One of the worst cases of abuse was at the barn of a well known Canadian husband and wife dressage duo. He climbed aboard this horse a girl had been warming up- there was a reasonable size audience of the barn boarders; I happened to be there to ask if I could ship my horse in for a quick farrier repair.
He picked up the curb rein of the double bridle only and gave him a good yank to start, and proceeded to whale on that horse with a dressage whip and spur it violently, no stirrups, a cigarette balanced on his lip. The horse was apparently being difficult to get to piaffe and passage. He sure did try his best, what I saw was abuse. if that's what it takes to get to the upper levels in that sport, I wanted none of it.
P.S.- the horse did go on to represent Canada at a Pan Am Games.

There is abuse in all aspects of riding. The minute there is ego and money on the line, people will do whatever it takes, and they feel can get away with.

This isn't for the faint of heart...

Shirley Roth Affidavit

God love that poor little horse. All for a paycheck and a trophy. So, so sad.