Who funds the horse slaughter lobby? All roads lead to AQHA and Agribusiness.

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Originally Posted by JumpingPaints

Speaking of farting rainbows and pooping butterflies.... there has been evidence, piled on top of evidence that factory horse slaughter has never been humane (and for us realists cannot ever be humane).

- 900 page USDA FOIA report of Beltex when it was open in Texas showing horses arriving at the plant with eyes gouged out (purposely as admitted by kill buyers to prevent fighting during transport), legs broken or torn off, lacerated or downed / dead. During that period one KB arrived with four DOAs in one load. And hasn't missed a beat since, continuing to operate business as usual trucking to plants in MX and CAN.
- European report showing that unsegregated slaughterbound horses had a 28% chance of illness or injury after a mere 12 hours in transport. Horses going to the US plants had a trip that was anywhere from 10 hours to several days as KBs went from auction to auction to get a full load
- A new, state-of-the-art slaughter plant designed by Temple Grandin was shut down for humane violations, which included a whopping 40% failure rate of humane stunning. One poor horse in the undercover video was stunned 7 times.
- Countless investigations of cruelty at US livestock auctions once horses are destined for slaughter, including excessive whipping, use of electric prods and hitting horses with sticks and pipes.

And with the exception of the Canadian plant (which is better designed than any US plant ever was) all of these egregious humane infractions happened on US soil. How on EARTH do you think it could be done humanely?

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Still reading all that animal rights propaganda?
Try thinking that thru and see if that makes sense as told, compared with the reality of "the business model" you seem to like so well?
Why would anyone destroy the product they are trying to "manufacture"?
Right, doesn't make sense that abuses were the norm, there would not have been any business to conduct with "damaged merchandise".
Not that it didn't happen, but that the reports are read and brought forth way out of proportion with reality.
Something could be wrong with the way the reports you are accessing are told and used for their propaganda, think about that.

Humane Killing no such animal. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Bluey

Oh, yes, the one solution is, like with our small pets, animal control killing millions a year and throwing them out into landfills.
The way we are going, now you can add horses to that pile.:eek:

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Because this is so much better...
http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2012/...ing-waste.html

Or you can ask the mayor of dallas crowne how much better for the environment having a horse slaughter facility there was.

Of course it's about the money... Everything in this country is about the money.

If someone thought they could sell dog and cat meat overseas for human consumption at a profit, there would be an effort to open slaughterhouses for dogs and cats too, instead of euthanasia at a shelter.

Nobody is trying to open a slaughterhouse out of concern for horses.

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Originally Posted by Bluey

Still reading all that animal rights propaganda?
Try thinking that thru and see if that makes sense as told, compared with the reality of "the business model" you seem to like so well?
Why would anyone destroy the product they are trying to "manufacture"?
Right, doesn't make sense that abuses were the norm, there would not have been any business to conduct with "damaged merchandise".
Not that it didn't happen, but that the reports are read and brought forth way out of proportion with reality.
Something could be wrong with the way the reports you are accessing are told and used for their propaganda, think about that.

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Garsh, it seems you might need an extra-strength tinfoil hat for that paranoia about 'animal rights'.

The information I cited is all based on cold, hard evidence. Photos, videos and official reports. You can deny it all you want, but propaganda it ain't.

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Originally Posted by jetsmom

Because this is so much better...
http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2012/...ing-waste.html

Or you can ask the mayor of dallas crowne how much better for the environment having a horse slaughter facility there was.

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We have been around and around many times now.

Lets say that you want to ban because of what is not up to par, forgetting that this is about much more than this little battle with animal rights extremists.

I say, lets keep using our animals, as we are, every day and week and year and decade doing a better and better job of it, as best we know how and not let animal rights extremists and their defenders and followers trip us with their "all is abuse!", because we know it is not.

Don't confuse animal rights and banning uses with animal welfare and using our animals in every area we do so with our best care, including thru slaughter, as so much of the world has always done and most is still doing that has horses.

Remember that horse slaughter and "wild horses" are two of the best profit centers for animal rights groups, when it comes to horses.
They don't want this "abuse" goose laying golden eggs for them to stop.

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Originally Posted by JumpingPaints

Garsh, it seems you might need an extra-strength tinfoil hat for that paranoia about 'animal rights'.

The information I cited is all based on cold, hard evidence. Photos, videos and official reports. You can deny it all you want, but propaganda it ain't.

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Oh, yes, no tin foil hat needed.:lol:
Anyone can read that information you are posting here, including the OP, in animal rights sites.

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Originally Posted by JumpingPaints

Garsh, it seems you might need an extra-strength tinfoil hat for that paranoia about 'animal rights'...

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Animals don't have rights.

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Originally Posted by 7HL

Animals don't have rights.

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Agreed. And I'm not proposing they should either.

But I do believe our equine partners shouldn't spend their last days enduring the inherent suffering of the horse slaughter pipeline.

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Originally Posted by JumpingPaints

Agreed. And I'm not proposing they should either.

But I do believe our equine partners shouldn't spend their last days enduring the inherent suffering of the horse slaughter pipeline.

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I don't think any horse should be abused.

But I am not against slaughter. I don't think it is abuse.

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Originally Posted by 7HL

I don't think any horse should be abused.

But I am not against slaughter. I don't think it is abuse.

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Thanks for that. There is abuse in the slaughter pipeline, though not all horses are at the receiving end. I've had non-horse trucker friends call me from truckstops to tell me horror stories about what KBs are doing to downed horses on the trailer. A good deal of suffering (not necessarily caused by "abuse") is endured during transport, where high rates of injury and illness are inevitable. And the kill process itself is virtually impossible to make humane. To me abuse and suffering are equally unacceptable.

I would like very much to hear an update to the 4-part series of articles The Chronicle ran last summer about all of these issues; it prominently mentioned that in 2013 any horse meat entering the EU must be accompanied by that animal's "passport" including LIFETIME medication records; and that said meat must conform to EU standards for horses RAISED for human consumption, specifically banning common substances like Bute, Ivermectin, corticosteriods, etc. that are used in virtually ALL sport and pleasure horses in the USA.

The article stated that when this "grandfather clause" the Canadian and Mexican plants have been operating under expires in 2013, it will spell a virtual END to the North American slaughter industry, at least for human consumption.
Some small numbers may still go for pet food or zoos.

I'd like very much to hear if this is still on schedule for next year.

I grew up with the slaughter industry a fact of life that was never far from our minds; our beloved school horses were one slip or twist away from that sad fate, our friends' show hunters "disappeared" when they went away to school, and in the late 70's you could not even BUY a cheap riding horse, even an older one, because the killer buyers were paying up to $1K for them and outbidding the riding schools and camps.

Horses have never been raised for meat in the USA; they have been work and companion animals for hundreds of years and occupy a very different place in our culture than do pigs and cows. Our relationship with them is different, involving levels of mutual trust that make most riders very squeamish about slaughter unless one is truly desperate or just mercenary. At the heart of the matter, a stun-line as operated for cattle is NOT humane for animals of FLIGHT such as horses, so it's no surprise the "fail" rate is unacceptable.

RESOLVE TO DO BETTER BY OUR HORSES. This industry at this time in history has all the moral authority of WHALING.
It is not necessary for human welfare by any remote stretch of the imagination, just a dirty profit for a few and marginal at that. It is not a convenient "catch-all" for irresponsible breeders or people down on their luck--it is a simple commodity trade for the lowest bottom feeders of the horse industry. Think rats!

I am curious what bluey and alagirl and 7hl think...just basics...no arguing propoganda, HSUS/peta, etc

Just explain why you think horse slaughter is ok. I really am curious.

with all the videos(remember the one that video'd days in a slaughter house that was posted on here?) and some of the other papers that are not propoganda based, I really am curious how anyone can think the way equine slaughter is done can be an acceptable way to dispose of horses humanely.

So, no arguing/positioning, just your soul talking why you find it ok the way it is currently being done?

Hmmm...let's see here. The AQHA makes money when breeders and owners register their horses. The more horses registered equals more money for the AQHA. It doesn't take an economist to figure that out.

By standing behind slaughter, the AQHA is encouraging breeders to over produce, rather than being responsible about breeding. They don't care about the quality of horses bred each year, but the quantity.

Full moon or not, there is nothing responsible about a breed registry supporting slaughter.

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Originally Posted by 7HL

But I am not against slaughter. I don't think it is abuse.

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A slaughter method that does not immediately kill the animal is abusive, because the animal will suffer some sort of trauma.

Recently, a cattle slaughterhouse here in CA was shut down indefinitely due to video showing how cows were being abused prior to being killed. There was no propaganda behind this, nor was there any behind the chicken plant where abuse was also recorded. Any mistreatment of an animal is abuse in some manner. I will say again, if people still think it's okay to abuse cows and chickens, why do people think horses will be spared?

I can't back this up with facts, but I'm guessing that someone working on a kill line isn't doing it for their love of animals.

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Originally Posted by JumpingPaints

And as a past student of economics, I implicitly understand that the full force of the market is never going to come to bear on irresponsible breeding until slaughter is eliminated. And manufacturing less horses is the ONLY thing that is ever going to improve equine welfare and the overall horse market. Dat's the way markets work.

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So what is your magical solution? If slaughter results in more slaughter then what are we supposed to do? Who is supposed to accept the financial burden of unwanted horses? Who is supposed to pay the endless vet bills of chronically lame horses? Who do we put at risk by asking them to give a dangerous horse a permanent home? Increase taxes further and create permanent holding pens and hope people adopt (because that's been an overwhelming success with BLM)? If your solution is euthanasia then who accepts the vet costs, burial fees, etc?

If slaughter is not an acceptable option that what do you think would fix this solution we find ourselves in?

Of course education is the answer in the longterm. Education and a whole lot of luck might change this situation (even though it has failed to change irresponsible breeders of dogs).

However it does not stop the number of unwanted horses from building. Most universities won't even take horses at this point and rescues are overflowing. Are we supposed to rely on the compassion and sympathy of individuals in the horse community?

I have the resources for a single horse and honestly, I will never go to an auction to pick up a broken down reject. Sorry. Call me heartless. If I want a retiree then it will be my own loved horse who has had a long and fruitful (or maybe not so long and fruitful) career. I will provide for the animals that I take on but I know that I am not alone in feeling that the irresponsibility of others should not fall on the individuals in this country.

I am not arguing that the past practices of horse slaughter were humane or acceptable but if you think that horse slaughter is inherently morally wrong (but somehow slaughtering meat animals is ok) then I would love to hear your reasoning about how we fix this problem.

FWIW, i dont think it is ok to kill any animal in an inhumane/painful manner.

however, it is MORE cruel to let a horse starve to death, or to dump it somewhere.... or to send it to mexico, etc.

and i also dont think horses are any "better" thank any other animal - to me they are all special and sacred.

all of what is going on seems to be wrongs trying to make rights....

in other words: just because how it is done now is bad does not mean we should not try to make it better so we can have that option for our horses....

especially now when when so much waste is going on... horses should be able to be used - for meat - for glue or whatever... after they have died. because by then it is just a body.

as long as equine slaughter is seen as wrong or bad or black market the horses will suffer.. it needs to be a model that is above ground, regulated and overseen so the horses will be treated decently.

I love all animals, but i am a realist - i know we all will die and wasting the dead body just seems wrong.....

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Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain

I am not arguing that the past practices of horse slaughter were humane or acceptable but if you think that horse slaughter is inherently morally wrong (but somehow slaughtering meat animals is ok) then I would love to hear your reasoning about how we fix this problem.

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Originally Posted by mbm

however, it is MORE cruel to let a horse starve to death, or to dump it somewhere.... or to send it to mexico, etc.

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Horses were starved, turned loose and shipped to Mexico even when horse slaughter for meat was legal in the U.S.

Slaughter houses generally won't accept thin or sick horses, yet they are routinely left to die by kill buyers. How will that change is horse slaughter is brought back to the U.S.? A thin or sick horse is worth nothing to a meat man.

There are organizations that have come up with plans of what can be done with "unwanted" horses, yet they still fail to get a lot of publicity or support. I'm not sure why, only that I think it may be because slaughter is the easy way out. Breeders will continue to over breed as long as their is an easy way for them to cull their herds. We may not be able to stop idiot back yard breeders, but we should be able to come up with a way that encourages breeders to be more careful with the numbers they produce.

Instead of the AQHA and AHA supporting slaughter, why aren't they putting aside funds from registrations to help rescues or organizations who truly want to help horses? :confused::confused:

What is it about horse haters that they think that every anti-slaughter person or post is an animal “rights” activist? Most of us are just responsible horse owners and lovers. Who believe that it is more humane to pay one month’s care to humanely euthanize a horse than to send it to slaughter to gain $50, after all expenses. Those who have to shoot or sell 25 horses for nothing? They are the problem not the horse WELFARE advocates.

If they had any brains at all, the horse haters would realize that if we just could outlaw horse slaughter AND the transportation to slaughter, all of us horse crazy people would go back to just riding our horses or posting about dinner or friends. What you are really doing in keeping slaughter on the “table” is enabling us to keep on fighting you on FB. And, while we are at it, we are reading about all of the other insane and horrible things you are doing to other animals. So, that slippery slope you are worried about? YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!! YOU are creating it right here. I cannot believe the number of people in the past year who are online just trying to save their/our horses who, along the way, have declared that they have become vegetarians and vegans just by virtue of reading about all the torment and torture other animals are put through. You could easily stop this drain on your gravy train by NOT opposing horse slaughter.

YES, horses ARE different. To begin with. But the more we are educated, the more we wonder if that is actually true? Why not just accept that horses are different and move on?? Cause unless you are like this moron: http://www.agweek.com/event/article/id/20053/ , you realize that the horse slaughter market does NOT help the horse industry. If you think it does, you are likely someone with worthless horses, or too stupid to stop breeding, or believe the drivel that neglected and abandoned horses are the ones going to slaughter. Wake up and smell the horse manure you fell face first into!

(and to those who think the abandoned and abused horses are going to slaughter? That is very few. It is the “culls” – the failures produced by failures who fill the pipeline.)

mbm: guessing you are asking in your will for your family to eat your diseased body?

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Originally Posted by HorseOwner101

mbm: guessing you are asking in your will for your family to eat your diseased body?

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wtf?

on that note i am outta here because clearly this thread just hit an all time low.

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Originally Posted by HorseOwner101

What is it about horse haters that they think that every anti-slaughter person.....

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Big leap or assumption. Maybe that is why you are using an alter. No guts to use your real screen name.